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Heavy Hauler on Barnstormers

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Posted (edited)

"Basically free" now for 20 grand. Guys looking into this.... Dont invest  35K if you do not have the time to finish. Feel for the seller. Huge investment no return. 90% done 90% to go project. 

Edited by C5Engineer
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"Basically free" now for 20 grand. Guys looking into this.... Dont invest  35K if you do not have the time to finish. Feel for the seller. Huge investment no return. 90% done 90% to go project. 

This is a killer.. Too many people start off with all the time in the world.. then they get drunk one night, fire off a random round and boom, they have a kid on the way.  The bachelor pad with a nice shop is now a dream and they are buying wedding dresses, moving into a house with more bedrooms and no garage, buying wedding rings etc.  There is nothing in this world that I know of in the world of toys that will return your investment.  After looking at it sitting idle for a few years you just let out a loud sigh, grab the lube and bend over as you know it will be atleast another 18 yrs before you will have the time or funds to finish the project.  I feel bad for the guy but I bet he ends up selling it for 15k or less.

:BC:

 

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"He that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune, for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief. Certainly the best works and of greatest merit for the public have proceeded from the unmarried or childless men." -  Francis Bacon

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Posted

"Basically free" now for 20 grand. Guys looking into this.... Dont invest  35K if you do not have the time to finish. Feel for the seller. Huge investment no return. 90% done 90% to go project. 

 

This is a killer.. Too many people start off with all the time in the world.. then they get drunk one night, fire off a random round and boom, they have a kid on the way.  The bachelor pad with a nice shop is now a dream and they are buying wedding dresses, moving into a house with more bedrooms and no garage, buying wedding rings etc.  There is nothing in this world that I know of in the world of toys that will return your investment.  After looking at it sitting idle for a few years you just let out a loud sigh, grab the lube and bend over as you know it will be atleast another 18 yrs before you will have the time or funds to finish the project.  I feel bad for the guy but I bet he ends up selling it for 15k or less.

:BC:

 

Or, they struggle along with no help, and a wife who don't want them to fly, until they get too old or their health is failing.  I don't have anywhere near 35K invested in mine, but I hope that the guy who gets to finish it and fly it will at least appreciate my work and efforts to make it happen.  EDMO

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Posted

That project is worth $15k all day long and weekends too. With the work done and equipment listed, it wouldn't surprise me if someone bit at $20k or close to it.

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The Jabiru engine cost about 14,500, prop probably 1500.  It's really not a lot of money at 20,000 for what's there.  Trouble is though finding someone who wants to part with that much money for anything that needs lots of work when there are flying ones around going for perhaps the same or sometimes less.   Jim Chuk

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I agree most folks don't want to do anything more than strap in and turn a key, but I what quality would you be buying for $15k-$20k? I surely have never seen a brand newly completed Kitfox or stretched Avid with new Jab 2200, prop and extensive panel equipment like this for less than $20k. Sure it's not a 912, but then, it's not a 2-stroke or off brand engine either. Unless you are in the right place at the right time, i.e. extreme hardship or personal word of mouth opportunity, $15k-$20k might get you a previously flying plane, but most often an older build with basic panel that has been sitting and needs a thorough go thru and at least some level of rebuild which = even more $$$'s. I realize the market is fluid but that type of new, turn key, fully equipped plane for under $20k just doesn't happen around here. If it did I'd be flying it! :)

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Posted

Funny thing is, if it was a kitfox it would have been sold 5 months ago when he started listing it. Quite a while back I tried to buy the prop off him but he wasn't ready to split it up yet.

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Hi Doug,  In my post I didn't mention a new fully equipted plane selling for 20,000 or less.  I said flying ones.  Not at all trying to argue or quibble, but there is a lot of work left to do on this plane, and most people probably can't or don't want to do all that work.  They might want all the features this plane can offer, but then may settle for a lot less to have a flying airplane.  Jim Chuk

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Jim - not suggesting you did, sorry if it came off that way. And I agree wholeheartedly a lot of folks would opt for the 'buy it now' route. I did, and that was after starting to build. A LOT of junk out there, I took a long time (years) to find only a couple of good quality builds at what I thought was the right price. Yes they were basic and maybe even flyable, but I still had to invest quite a bit of sweat equity and $$$ to get them to my airworthy comfort level. My experience is $15k-$20k doesn't go all that far and anything in the 'teens' for that Avid project seems pretty reasonable to me, particularly if the seller has the materials to finish included. Seems like most of the hard work is done though. One thing for sure, like the first owner who drives a new car off the lot, the first owner of an experimental aircraft -completed or not- has to swallow the depreciation. You certainly don't buy/build new to make money.

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No problem Doug.  I was just trying to clarify what I was trying to say.  One thing for sure if you want to make a small fortune in building experimentals, start with a large one and get out when it's reduced to the amount you want...;-)   Jim Chuk

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Posted

...only to have me scoop the Mangy from you, and look how that turned out.

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Posted

I think it turned out GREAT! :BC:

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Posted

One of our local EAA Chapter members is interested in this bird.  By chance have any of you seen a mod like this (16" lengthening) and have a feel for what you can see in the images?  We are in NY and the bird is in Georgia, so a reasonable travel expense required to take a look.  By chance have any of you actually seen the plane?

These Heavy Haulers, are they kinda like a Kitfox IV or a bit larger like a Kitfox V?  Any adverse flying characteristics to be aware of?  The Jabiru install, was this ever an option for the Avid C or is it a custom install?

 

 

 

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Posted

An Avid "C" is more comparable to a Kitfox 2 or 3.

The Kitfox 4 is larger and the 5 (and later) are much larger.

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The 16" 'stretch' option was offered by (old) Airdale, primarily to address CG issues for those wanting a Sube FWF. Was successful enough that they incorporated the additional length in the Avid+ fuselage. Lots of stretched Avids out there, and owners do report a significant improvement vs. the shorter models regarding adverse yaw tendency. On the advertised plane, I see the seller has done a bunch of welding so I would ask if the stretch was  D.I.Y. job or done in the factory jig.

Neither Avid Aircraft nor (old) Airdale offered a Jab 2200 FWF option, although engine mounts and cowl sets are available for Avid/Kitfox. Jim Chuk here flew his Avid Mk-4 with a Jab 2200 FWF for many hours, I had and was planning a Jab 2200 FWF on my Avid Mk-4 but sold the project before completion to buy my A+. John Miller put many hundreds of hours on his Avid B model and now an Avid Mk-4 w/ Jab2200. Lynn Matteson has put well over 1000hs on his KF4-1200 and I have two Jab KF4-1200s right at my home airport. I've flown one and it was very smooth and economica. There are a lot flying now and Dave Jalanti of Jabiru Power Solutions at Klinekill Airport in Ghent, NY will probably be your best local source for info.

The term 'Heavy Hauler' really describes a more robust wing construction, but heavier lift struts, rod ends and other mods to the fuselage and landing (both main and tailwheel) also need to be present to accurately describe the entire plane as a HH. It does get a bit tricky because the wings and lift struts used will determine the planes MTOW, ie put B model wings and lift struts on a Mk-4, and the MTOW is limited to 950lbs. Conversely, simply putting wings constructed to the HH standard on a Mk-4 may or may not result in an 1150lb MTOW, as other factors previously mentioned also come into play. I did post a detailed description of the wing, model and MTOW on site a long time ago if you want to search.

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Posted

Fabulous feedback.  Thanks Doug.

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Posted (edited)

The term 'Heavy Hauler' really describes a more robust wing construction, but heavier lift struts, rod ends and other mods to the fuselage and landing (both main and tailwheel) also need to be present to accurately describe the entire plane as a HH. It does get a bit tricky because the wings and lift struts used will determine the planes MTOW, ie put B model wings and lift struts on a Mk-4, and the MTOW is limited to 950lbs. Conversely, simply putting wings constructed to the HH standard on a Mk-4 may or may not result in an 1150lb MTOW, as other factors previously mentioned also come into play. I did post a detailed description of the wing, model and MTOW on site a long time ago if you want to search.

An excellent point and why having the original factory invoice and accurate logbbooks would prove invaluable with these aircraft.  Sadly too many aircraft become permanently separated from their historical records or non-dutiful owners.

 

Edited by allonsye

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Posted

I just clicked the link and was greeted with "this ad is not currently available".     Lou

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