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[Neloner 46]

Hi Guys, 

My name is Jim, been reading lots on your site over the past months, but an unfortunate incident caused me to sign up and seek some advice. Bought my avid MKiv a couple months ago and have been using it to learn how to fly and pursue my sport pilot license. Absolutely love the plane and have logged 30 something hours in it, and have soloed and been flying around on my own the last few weeks. Anyhow long story short I put in a strip and my Folks house, and the other day I had my first (and hopefully last) groundloop. This would not have been a big deal really, accept that when the plane did its 180, the right gear dropped into a ditch surrounding a tennis court, and bent the gear on that side, and also the right wing hit the corner fencepost. Brought the plane back to my barn, and began disassembling the broken pieces, wing is off the plane, and pulled the gear off. The damage looks to be

right gear leg will need to be rebuilt (have not had any luck getting ahold of airdale to buy a new one)

Leading edge of right wing needs to be re fiberglassed (has a fiberglass covered wood leading edge extension) and patched

Trailing edge of wing needs to have the aluminum strip reattached to one rib, and be patched (this damage was done pulling the plane out of the ditch (my own dumb fault)

Also one tube on the fuselage right above where the front gear attachment point is has cracked. Nothing appears to be bent, cloth is tight and everything lines up as it did before (door shuts fine) but one tube is cracked straight through (see pics) I looked all around the area and have found no other evidence of stressed metal/ welds

 

I have a few questions since I am new to the whole plane repair business. I am happy to do work myself, but need to know if Im on the right path here. Im planning to re fiberglass the 12" section of leading edge that got squished, and re adhere the aluminum trailing edge. Will patches cover these areas adequately, or should I plan on a recover (hopefully not as $ is an issue)  **Also, what would one expect to pay roughly to have these patches done?

Going to have the landing gear sandblasted and repaired as getting a new leg from Airdale does not seem like it is going to happen. then repaint and recover

Assuming I will have to remove a section of fuselage cloth to replace the small tube that cracked. Should I carefully cut out the whole tube and replace it, or weld it and brace it with a gusset? Then repaint and recover. 

 

What should I expect to pay to have someone patch the areas on the wing that need to be fixed? I am wondering if it is cheaper to have someone else to 2 patches that for me to invest in all the materials to do it myself (I have no cloth experience whatsoever)

 

Before:

 

After

 

 

Anyhow, I love my little plane, And am not happy to be grounded for the time being. Hopefully Ill be up and running in a couple of weeks

Edited 29 Jul 2016 by Neloner

[akflyer 1427]

I have a set of gear legs I will sell you if your interested.  500 plus shipping.  I paid over twice that for them.  Shipping was around 125 bucks last time I checked into it. 

Beautiful bird, I hope you get her back in the air soon!  What prop is that and what kind of performance were you getting with it?

 

 

[Neloner 46]

If its a set of the wide legs Id be interested for sure. Ill pm you my number maybe text a couple pics. 

The prop is a Kiev 183, smooth as silk and performance is pretty good IMO, plenty good enough for me puttering around locally

 

 

 

Edited 28 Jul 2016 by Neloner

[Geoffrey Thorpe 31]

You may find that the FAA's "AC 43.13-1B - Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair" will have a lot of useful information on repairing broken tubes, etc.  http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861

[EDMO 1078]

I noticed in the first photo that you have more than one ram-air tube sticking up on the wings - Unfortunately, it looks like you have them pointed to the rear instead of toward the front - this could make a suction on your tanks instead of pressurizing them.     EDMO

Edited 27 Jul 2016 by EDMO

[Neloner 46]

^ Yes there is one vent tube in each of the 4 gas caps. Wasnt sure which way to point them, just assumed backwards so rain/ bugs wouldnt go in. I will spin them around once shes ready to go again. 

 

[EDMO 1078]

^ Yes there is one vent tube in each of the 4 gas caps. Wasnt sure which way to point them, just assumed backwards so rain/ bugs wouldnt go in. I will spin them around once shes ready to go again. 

 

I am not sure if they are still available, but some have used a flipper-type cap on their tubes, like the one used on pitot tubes, that opens when air pushes against it.  I don't have a photo handy, but have posted one on here somewhere before - check out Aircraft spruce catalog.   Others just use the tubes without any caps.   EDMO

PM? - put your pointer on someone's handle at the left of the screen, or their handle on any post, and a card insert will show, then at the bottom of the insert click on "message" to send them a PM.   Envelope at top of main screen will take you to your messages too.   Welcome to the group - most any question you ask will have several answers or more questions asked - This is a great forum group.   I am sending you a PM to read - click on the envelope for it to show, and you can answer it directly from there.   EDMO

Edited 28 Jul 2016 by EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

Just looking at your pics, sorry for you.  It happens quick and then you get to fix it.  That one broken tube, my guess is there is another one close by.  The trailing edge is easy to fix, Aircraft spruce sells it pretty cheap.  Most likely remove the old one, and glue in a new one. Fabric work is real easy if you just follow the manual.  Where are you located?  JImChuk

[EDMO 1078]

Just looking at your pics, sorry for you.  It happens quick and then you get to fix it.  That one broken tube, my guess is there is another one close by.  The trailing edge is easy to fix, Aircraft spruce sells it pretty cheap.  Most likely remove the old one, and glue in a new one. Fabric work is real easy if you just follow the manual.  Where are you located?  JImChuk

Jim,  He wanted to know if he could patch the wing or if it had to be a complete recover job.    Thanks for posting.   EDMO

[Neloner 46]

Just looking at your pics, sorry for you.  It happens quick and then you get to fix it.  That one broken tube, my guess is there is another one close by.  The trailing edge is easy to fix, Aircraft spruce sells it pretty cheap.  Most likely remove the old one, and glue in a new one. Fabric work is real easy if you just follow the manual.  Where are you located?  JImChuk

i will examine further, maybe something will manifest when I pull off some fabric, just waiting to do that until i learn the right method of doing so. Thanks for the tip on the trailung edge material! 

I am located in upstate NY, not far from Rochester. 

[1avidflyer 1983]

Do you know what kind of covering system was used?  It looks pretty shinny.  Is it aerothane epoxy for the color coat?  That is hard to work with.  Poly fiber is pretty easy to patch.  You could mabe do the patch 2 ribs wide and wrap the new/back fabric around the spar, and then glue the old fabric down onto it.  JImChuk

[akflyer 1427]

The polyfiber manual will tell you how to make the patch on the wing.  I am pretty sure you just have to overlap the fabric 2" to make the repair and its already centered on the rib.  I have made a "rib to rib" patch and it came out just fine and is still flying 10 yrs later.  Like Jim said aerothane is a PITA to patch but the methods for doing so are shown in the book.  Shiny looks nice but you just can't beat the polytone for ease of filed repairs!

 

 

[Fly-n-Low 181]

That sucks, sorry to see that. Good luck getting it together again.

 

BTW, I love the paint scheme. It really works well!!!

[Neloner 46]

Seems like the first order of business is identifying the type of finish on the plane, then I can proceed with that knowledge. I have no idea what it is, but my local eaa chapter has a meeting on saturday so I will bring a bit with me and hopefully someone can identify it for me. Any tips to correctly determine the type of finish?

 

edit: also wanted to ask if anyone on here knew where I could source a replacement 8" rim to fit my Nanco 21" tire. Appears to be 8"x9.5" width, bolts right up to my blackmax hub. Ive had no luck finding it. Have a set of 6" wheels/ tires I can run for now but like the big baloon tires. The axle bent and in the process twisted the inside of the rim just a bit where the hub bolts on

Edited 28 Jul 2016 by Neloner

[akflyer 1427]

You can get a douglas ATV rim and have the lugs for the brake tabs welded to them.  We have done a few sets of them around here.  I don't have the douglas part number off hand for you though.

 

[akflyer 1427]

 

Here is a link to the douglas part number for the 8" rims kitfox uses or used.

 

[akflyer 1427]

you can also probly take a block of wood and a hammer and straighten the rim out that you have.

 

[Neloner 46]

you can also probly take a block of wood and a hammer and straighten the rim out that you have.

 

was wondering if this was an acceptable method ;)

 

Here is a link to the douglas part number for the 8" rims kitfox uses or used.

Link isnt showing up for me. Still having no luck finding them for sale, but may try the hammer/ wood fix and see how flat I can get it

[Neloner 46]

Are kitfoxes 4 bolt hubs? My plane is set up with black max brakes and hubs, which are 3 bolt. Looks like a regular douglas spun aluminum wheel, 8"x9" (possibly 9.5") i cannot for the life of me find this wheel, kind of curious now what it comes from. Black max sells wheels but nothing in this size, checked douglas' website, summitracing etc...

 

 

Edit: figured it out. Evidently a custom made wheel by a fellow named Joe aka "carolina flyer" guess the chances of finding a replacement are nil

 

Edited 28 Jul 2016 by Neloner

[Fly-n-Low 181]

Seems like the first order of business is identifying the type of finish on the plane, then I can proceed with that knowledge. I have no idea what it is, but my local eaa chapter has a meeting on saturday so I will bring a bit with me and hopefully someone can identify it for me. Any tips to correctly determine the type of finish?

Did the builder have a log? Mine did and it told me the type of paint and the color codes. It looks like really nice paint. Jet Glow or something like that I would bet. Who ever did it did a really nice job on the pin stripes and such it looks like. It wasn't painted by a novice, please be assured of that!!! I used to paint aircraft!

[1avidflyer 1983]

If the paint is poly tone, MEK will take it off.  If it's aerothane, it won't.  First though, look at the inside of the fabric.  If it's pink color, that is poly brush.  That's the first coat applied in the polyfiber system.  The Kitfox wheels are 6 hole, but I think they came from the factory with only 3 of the holes drilled.  That's the way Douglas supplied them apparently.  JImChuk

PS  should have looked again at your first pictures.  It does look like the inside of the fabric is pink/poly brush.  Now go after the outside with some MEK and see if you can take off the finish coat.

Edited 29 Jul 2016 by 1avidflyer

[Neloner 46]

Looking through all the paperwork I recieved with the plane there is a pamphlet about Aerothane application and repair. Also the MEK does not affect the finish coat. Looks like I need to soak the cloth from the inside out and then peel off the aerothane. This should be fun. Any tips or tricks on how to repair aerothane coated clothwork would be appreciated. Going to start working on this today. 

 

Also- does anyone have about 1' of the aluminum trailing edge theyd be willing to sell me? Aircraftspruce only sells 10' sections evidently

Edited 29 Jul 2016 by Neloner

[akflyer 1427]

I have some, I will see if I can get the wife to send it with the gear.  Avid sold it to me in 2' or 3' long pieces so I bought the 10' pieces from spruce later on, I still have all the short stuff stuck in the rafters if she can find it.

You can find 4 hole douglas rims all day long.  You could take the 4 hole rims and rotate the pattern and drill 3 new holes in them if you want a new wheel.  All the wheels I have are 6 hole now to match the kitfox hubs.

 

I have never done repairs on aerothane, but read in the book its a pain and involves a lot more work and a lot more sanding to blend the repair in if you want it perfect.  Polytone is stupid simple to repair and make look good.

 

 

[Neloner 46]

^ Yea, looks a lot more like automotive type process to blend in and repair, should be interesting. I just want to make sure that the patch adheres well. I cut out the damaged areas of cloth on the leading edge, and some of the damaged fiberglass, and laid down a layer of new fiberglass to replace it. Not perfectly smooth as the wood in one section was mushed a tad, but will bondo it tomorrow and try to match the leading edge so the contours are right. Then I get to focus on the sanding and prepping of the surrounding areas to accept a patch. 

-Lenny, thanks again for everything, really a big help 

 

 

Edited 29 Jul 2016 by Neloner

[akflyer 1427]

it didn't dent the aluminum spar tube did it?

 

Your welcome!  Parts are on the way!