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Kitfox 1 with Kitfox 4 wings/tailfeathers

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Posted

I'm considering purchasing a Kitfox 1 kit. I've done a fair amount of reading on the first KF and it sounds like the main downside is the lack of authority in the flight controls. The kit I am looking at includes Kitfox IV wings, wing fuel tanks, full length flaperons, and Kitfox IV rudder and elevator. Would this drastically improve the kitfox 1 or would it cause some problems possibly?

Thanks.

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Posted

IMHO, the main downside of the KF1 is a low M.T.O.W. rating. Adding KF4 wings and tail feathers would be a drastic improvement in some respects, particularly cruise speeds. However, it would also be a substantial increase in weight and would require adding height to the vertical stabilizer (i.e. welding new tubing). Also not 100% certain the horizon. stab is a simple plug 'n play either. Personally, unless I got such a kit at a screaming good price, I would probably just seek out a higher gross Avid/Fox kit or refurb project. They are out there.

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Posted (edited)

TJay is building a KF1 with stronger wings and larger engine - maybe you need to talk to him about it.    I don't know if you can even name it as a Kitfox if you don't use the whole original kit - maybe a scratch-built with your own designation for a name and set your own weight limits?  You have to use the longer, larger, heavier Kitfox 4 struts with those wings - KF1 struts will not work if you build the wings according to Kitfox 4 instructions.  I have both builder's books.  

Doug talked about the wing changes setting the GW on the Avids:  Would this be a Kitfox 1-4 with 1050 GW,

or maybe a "Superbird" 1200?  

I guess that is the builder's decision?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I think it would work great if you build it right, I do think you would loose your wing folding option unless you raise the rear spar carry through, leaving it as it is I don't see any way the flaperons would clear the fuselage tubing, something to think about , also leaving it as it is you would not have the correct incidence for that wing but I don't think you would notice it while flying,  If your looking for a project go for it,

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for pointing out the wing folding option. I am looking at it from a distance and have been talking to the seller on the phone. I asked about the wings folding and he didn't see any hinges on the fuselage. He is unable to ask the builder since he passed away, but I'm guessing this is why everything is nearly finished except the flaperons. What would I have to do with the flaperon length to allow the wings to fold? 

In my case I am not too worried about 900 GW. My wife and I weigh a combined 280 and I will usually be flying alone. 1050 would be better and I would be even happier with 1200. 

What is the process for getting a repairmen's certificate if the fuselage is put together and painted, landing gear installed, wings fitted and completed (uncovered). From the pictures I can see that I would have to double check the controls, but it looks like it is nearly ready to cover. Most of the work left would involve the engine installation, panel, and painting.

Edited by fargoflyfish
incomplete

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Posted

One other thing: It really seems like a good price. Fuselage was fabricated by a certified welder, the wings have been fit, controls finished, low time 582 included. The main things left that I would have to purchase are covering supplies, painting, panel, propeller. Everything else is there from what I can see for $4000 and I might be able to get it for less. I can probably have a completed plane for $9000 or hopefully less. 

It seems like a good deal, but I don't want to get stuck with 

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Posted

All Kitfoxes and Avids came from the factory with prewelded fuselages.  If some one fabed up their own fuse, are you sure it's not a Raven.  That was a Avid/Kitfox clone copy drawings.  Not a lot, but some were built.  Not trying to plug my Kitfox  1, but once I'm happy with everything on it, the price won't be a tremendously higher number than what you're hoping for. It weighs 500 lbs, and has a gross weight of 950.  That leaves 450 lbs usable load.  Probably about the same or maybe more than your  average Champ or Chief.   And it's flying now..... As far as the repairman's cert, you have to do an interview with you local FSDO and they will decide if you are knowledgeable enough about the airplane to get the cert.  A friend of mine finished an Avid a few years back, the plane was covered and in the silver when he started.  No engine, panel ect.  He ended up getting the repairman's cert., but just barely.  They weren't going to give it to him and then they got talking about his other building projects, and being that he had built and rebuilt a gyro copter previously, they let him slide through.  In the end, I believe it's up to the guy doing the interview with you.  in regard to wings folding, the front spar pin is removed, and the wing hinges on the rear spar pin.  The turtle deck is removed prior to folding the wings.   JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

CrazedPilot or Wildirishwings - or some names like that, has a utube video of "How to fold kitfox wings" - maybe somebody on here can post a link for him to click to get it?  I may have it saved in my Favorites if you cant find it for him, but I don't know how to put it on here.

Sounds more like you have a scratch-built plane instead of a Kitfox 1 - IMO, You need some kind of builder's log and photos to show that it was amateur-built, and you can name it anything except a Kitfox, and set your own GW, and then log the GW that you flew it at in Phase 1 testing.  You will also have to fill out the long form you can download from the FAA site for scratch-builders, since it was not bought as a Kitfox kit.   You have to detail every part and tell who made each part, whether it was amateur or commercially made.

I am building one that looks similar, but will never be a Kitfox.   I have another Raven-Kitfox Clone fuselage that can never be a Kitfox 1, although it is the same.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Ed,  to post a link to a youtube video, pull the video up that you want to post, left click on the page address left side of the address.  Hold down the left click, and slide all the way to the right on the address.  It will turn blue.  Then right click on the blue address, and a box will open with copy in it.  Left click on copy.  Go to the Avid forum page, and on your message, right click and a box will open that says paste in it.  When you left click paste, the link will show up in your message.  At least that's how I do it.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

Trying to post utube "How to fold Kitfox wings"   EDMO   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LhjXgVYv-A&feature=related   click on it to view it with sound.

  Thanks JIM.    I wish someone would post the video of the guy flying a yellow-nosed plane (Cub or Kitfox?) up a river in a "blind, boxed or dead-end canyon" - I enjoyed that one!   EDMO

Fargoflyfish - Personally, I think you might be better off to buy 1Avidflyer (Jim Chuk's) finished plane, or give it more consideration - I am sure it will already have an N-number and all the paperwork in order, and flown by Jim.   Finishing an unknown plane, Inspections and paperwork and 25 to 40 hours of Phase 1 testing can cost more $$$ and time than you figure.   He is one of the more experienced builders, and has more planes to fly.  The "improvement" you mentioned about larger tailfeathers was probably because of the increased GW and heavier engines, but the original tail  just means that you may have to add some power to flare - There are plenty of Kitfoxes and Avids with the smaller tails flying OK.

EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I talked to the seller and it sold. EDMO you were right. It was a raven with kit fox iv wings. 

Jim-Are you looking to sell your plane?

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Posted (edited)

I talked to the seller and it sold. EDMO you were right. It was a raven with kit fox iv wings. 

Jim-Are you looking to sell your plane?

I think that Jim was the first to tell you it was probably a Raven - I just added my 2 cents worth agreeing with him, and pointing out what problems and $$$ you might face if you got it.  Factory kits are a lot easier to build and license.  I hope he can sell you his KF1, and hope you continue to post on here.  Good Flying,   and I sent Jim a PM to tell him you might be interested in his plane - Didn't know if you were familiar with PM (Private Messages) yet.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I am planning to sell the plane eventually.  Wanted to put about 10 or 15 hrs on it to work out any bugs.  Only have 3.5 on it so far.  Here is a thread I started when I got this project last fall.  Kind of shows what I did with it.  JImChuk

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Posted

What part of MN are you in? If you decide to sell it I'd love to take a look at it.

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Posted

I live 4 miles N of Chisholm, Mn.  That's about 70 miles NNW of Duluth.  When I'm ready to sell, I'll post it here as well as other places.  JImChuk

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