Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Engine Swap

34 posts in this topic

Posted

I got my old engine off and sitting on the workbench tonite. Was surprised quick it went. Got lots of cleaning up to do now. I was never really happy with my wiring. So glad I get to re-do it. I'm also replacing a bunch of line and rebuilding my fuel pump while it's apart. I'm going to bead blast the white paint off my E box before I tear it apart also. It looks decent in the picture but it's peeling in a bunch of spots and just looks like crap overall. I'm a stickler for details. Here is where I'm sitting right now.

IMG_5370.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hi, How many hours did you put on your 582 before pulling it out?Are you rebuilding it or buying a new one? I was just curious if you were getting the new blue head style or rebuilding your old one.Its amazing how that little engine does what it does.I have a grayhead motor that Im putting in my Skyraider so hope it works out.Good Luck on your project. Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hi, How many hours did you put on your 582 before pulling it out?Are you rebuilding it or buying a new one? I was just curious if you were getting the new blue head style or rebuilding your old one.Its amazing how that little engine does what it does.I have a grayhead motor that Im putting in my Skyraider so hope it works out.Good Luck on your project. Randy

I bought my Grey Head as a FWF package from a guy that upgraded his B model to a Jabiru. He had rebuilt it twice and it had just shy of 1200 hours total time and 360 SMOH and 6 yeas on it when I got it. I knew it was run out when I put it on but figured I could get some time in on my bird before I did something with it. The rotary valve seal starting leaking after I put 18 hours on it so I started looking at my options. I found a very low time blue head for less than what it would cost me to pay someone to rebuild mine. The guy I got the engine from was even nice enough to tear it down and put all new seals in it, check the crank, and put pistons and rings in it so it's essentially a zero time engine now. I'm sending my Greyhead back to him as a core. This way I'm only down for a week too while I do the swap not a month or longer had I sent it off somewhere.Check out Rotax Rick on Barnstormers...very experienced Aviator and has been building Rotaxs for years. Great guy to work with and always has engines and Rotax parts in stock. Oh ya and no one else I found out there could touch his prices. We'll see how my engine runs before I praise him too much but so far he's been awesome to work with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I made a little bit more progress tonite. I rebuilt my Mikuni Fuel Pump. Did you know they recommend you do this annually?? In all the two strokes I've flown I have never tore one down till today. The kit is $15 from California Power Systems and it took me all of 20 minutes to rebuild it once I had it on the bench. Here are some pictures if anyone if anyone cares to know what the inside of one looks like. There are two little discs in the very center that use a little rubber plug to hold them in. Put a dab of grease on the new ones or you'll never get them back through the hole. I destroyed the first one I tried and had to re use one.

IMG_5374.jpg

Rebuild Kit part number

IMG_5376.jpg

I also pulled my exhaust manifold off since I will be re-using it with the new engine. Anyone care to diagnose this piston for me??? Yikes

IMG_5381.jpg

The lines on the cylinder wall were VERY visible also

IMG_5382.jpg

Next up is bead blasting that nasty old white paint off my gearbox and getting it off the old engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

EGT's are a bit high.. Didnt you say you were running the amsoil at 80 or 100 to 1? I cant remember if it was you or someone else that was running it. If so, fatten it up a bit. What do your EGT's look like when you pull the power? they go up a good bit in mid range? I run mine about 1100 tops using mixture and pitch.

:beerchug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Mine never run above 1150 on my cheezy little gauge anyways. I have only seen them climb once in the midrange during a decent. I try to either descent around 5K or idle if it's not more than a minute or two of descent so it doesn't cool too much. I'm running the Amsoil at 80:1. They call for 100:1 so I'm already running it fat. My plugs led me to believe that I was running a little rich if anything. The inside of the exhaust manifold and pipe was a real golden color..almost bordering on a whitish color. I will have to be sure and watch my temps very closely with this new engine. I found two more leaks after I got everything off and cleaned up. The old engine is definitely ready for a teardown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Mine never run above 1150 on my cheezy little gauge anyways. I have only seen them climb once in the midrange during a decent. I try to either descent around 5K or idle if it's not more than a minute or two of descent so it doesn't cool too much. I'm running the Amsoil at 80:1. They call for 100:1 so I'm already running it fat. My plugs led me to believe that I was running a little rich if anything. The inside of the exhaust manifold and pipe was a real golden color..almost bordering on a whitish color. I will have to be sure and watch my temps very closely with this new engine. I found two more leaks after I got everything off and cleaned up. The old engine is definitely ready for a teardown.

The picture of your piston is probably not as bad as it looks as many hours is on it. You may have a slight pressure leak on that cylinder, you definately want to find out before breaking in your new engine.Sometimes the lack of carbon build up results in a carmel colored piston and makes it look lean.Your egt,s should tell you alot though.I would be more concerned with the color near the ring as it looks like the exhaust was running fairly warm.But on the other hand Im a boat mechanic and have never been into a aircraft engine.The new engine should give you a lttle piece of mind.I think I will do what you did and run out my greyhead and get some hours logged on my plane and save up for the newer bluehead.Its got 120 hours on it now so thats alot of flying if it makes TBO.Good luck with your engine transplant. Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks Randy. This engine has had all of its time on synthetic mix oil so I doubt it has very much carbon in it. I had the same plan as you...get my plane flying and get some time on it and then worry about something else. I was hoping to get a little more time out of it than I did. Once it started using Rotary Valve oil on almost every flight I knew it was time to stop pushing my luck.

Leni can you post what procedure you've found that works for bleeding the RV and cooling systems on an inverted engine???? The CPS catalog says to consult the manual but it's not in there. I've heard your supposed to bleed it right side up and then flip it over..that would be a pain trying to route the lines and not have oil running out of them all over the place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks Randy. This engine has had all of its time on synthetic mix oil so I doubt it has very much carbon in it. I had the same plan as you...get my plane flying and get some time on it and then worry about something else. I was hoping to get a little more time out of it than I did. Once it started using Rotary Valve oil on almost every flight I knew it was time to stop pushing my luck.

Leni can you post what procedure you've found that works for bleeding the RV and cooling systems on an inverted engine???? The CPS catalog says to consult the manual but it's not in there. I've heard your supposed to bleed it right side up and then flip it over..that would be a pain trying to route the lines and not have oil running out of them all over the place.

There is a little bleed screw above the water pump that you pull out to get most of the air out of the RV chamber. There is actually a little casting line in there that will prevent it from totally bleeding the air out. I use clear lines for the oil tubing so I can see if there is any air in the system. On the 3 inverted engines I have done, I have to damn nearly stand the plane on the nose to get all the air out of the engine. Make sure there is no fuel in the wing tank, I chocked the wheels, then lifted the tail over head and tied it off to the truck bumper and let her sit there for about 5 minutes as I watched the air go up the lines into the reservoir. It took several times of putting the tail as high as I could get it without hitting the cowling, then back down, refill the reservoir repeat tail lift etc.

The last Mk IV I did it took me a couple hours of dicking with that damn thing to get the air out.. I would bleed the shit out of it, think I had it, run it up and then see air in the line again.. refill, tail up, watch air, get solid oil, run up, see air, tail up etc.. if I had not used clear lines I would have never seen the air in the lines, and would have thought it was properly bled by using the bleeder screw on the engine block per the manual.

I learned this lesson the hard way on my plane. I rebuilt the engine, new crank etc, put it together, bled the air per the manual fired it right up and thought I was cutting a fat hog in the ass... then about 15 minutes into the break in, she went quiet on me. Turned out there was air in the RV cavity and the brass gear stripped.... Set me back a bit but after that is when I went to clear hose and learned what a bitch it is to get all the air out of the engine on some of the inverted installations.

:beerchug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

My new engine arrived this evening from UPS. It looks pretty awesome. The builder has acute attention to detail. I blasted all that old paint off my box with it still on the old engine. I wrapped the engine in garbage bag and sealed it off duct tape. I also sealed off the cooling holes with duct tape. The blaster made short work of the nasty paint that was on there. Tomorrow I'm swapping the boxes and hopefully getting the new engine hung. I'm also taking a lot of time to clean parts and replace a few things here and there. See during the rebuild process that my Dad initiated he came down with Cancer and the plane sat for 3 years after Dean Wilson did the FWF on it. Little things like primer line and stuff are pushing 4 years old. Enough rambling... here are some pics!

E box nice and clean again and free of the peeling white paint

IMG_5386.jpg

New and old engine side by side

IMG_5383.jpg

Super clean..

IMG_5384.jpg

IMG_5385.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I made some major progress on my engine swap this weekend. The E gearbox swap was pretty straight forward. The guy I got my engine from sent me the Rotax puller. Some tension and two whacks with the dead blow and it popped right off. I coated it in stuff called ST316 that CPS sells. It's stainless steel flakes mixed with Polyurethane. It made my gearbox look like brand new again.

Once that was all done my buddy and I started getting the engine mounted. We ran into several problems here. I had to take out the angle grider and grind a little off the case so it would fit in my engine mounts. I also had to use a cut off wheel on my dremel and cut off a small piece of the case to make it fit. After 9 hours yesterday we had the engine hung and called it a day. I spent most of the day today hooking everything back up. I'm SO much happier with my wiring now. It's nice and clean and loomed. Before it was rats nest that looked like crap.

I got the line for my rotary valve from the local cycle shop. The oil was not moving so I took my reservoir off the firewall and pulled it up as high as I could get it. I sat there and watched the air come up the line for about 30 minutes. I had to top off the reservoir 3 times during the process. I think it's good to go.

My last obstacle is finding a 90 degree elbow for the water outlet on the head. The Blue Head outlet is 90 degrees off from my grey head. Can anyone confirm that the Rotax radiator hose is 1"????

Onto the pics.. wish I would have gotten some of the box swap but we were so busy I totally forgot

New engine hung

IMG_5395.jpg

IMG_5396.jpg

Gearbox after sandblasting and spraying with the ST316

IMG_5397.jpg

I also sandblasted all my exhaust parts and repainted it with some high temp stove paint. It was all rusty and nasty before.

IMG_5398.jpg

IMG_5404.jpg

Also installed my Tiny Tach while I had crap apart. It fit over the two bottom bolts of my old tach.

IMG_5400.jpg

Pretty proud at how clean my wiring came out

IMG_5405.jpg

The garage for this week

IMG_5401.jpg

The old engine headed for a rebuild and a new life on someone else's plane

IMG_5402.jpg

Bleeding the RV reservior

IMG_5407.jpg

I was not getting any fluid movement until I took it off the firewall and lifted it up... same thing as lifting the tail I think Leni

IMG_5399.jpg

This is the last thing I have left to do before I can fill the radiator and fire it up. I need a 90 degree elbow and a piece of radiator hose to finish it up. That's 1" tubing right????

IMG_5403.jpg

What a lot of work but man I am happy with the final result. I should be good to go for at least 300 hours now minus basic maintenance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Looking good! The outlet and hose are 1"!

I think lifting the tail may get some more air out of the system.. I could be wrong... There is a little casting in the block in the grey heads for sure that will trap a little air in there unless the entire engine gets angled down. Will be easy for you atleast try it if you roll it outside and pick that tail up about as high as you can get it. The blue head may have had that dam removed but I am doubting it.

That paint for the gear box looks DAMN good. It also looks like you Y pipe has not been modified and put up at a steeper angle. No issues with it not rubbing inside the cowl? Can you get all 4 bolts in each flange or are the top inside 2 impossible to get a bolt in :dunno:

Keep the progress up and you will back to flying tomorrow!

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Looking good! The outlet and hose are 1"!

I think lifting the tail may get some more air out of the system.. I could be wrong... There is a little casting in the block in the grey heads for sure that will trap a little air in there unless the entire engine gets angled down. Will be easy for you atleast try it if you roll it outside and pick that tail up about as high as you can get it. The blue head may have had that dam removed but I am doubting it.

That paint for the gear box looks DAMN good. It also looks like you Y pipe has not been modified and put up at a steeper angle. No issues with it not rubbing inside the cowl? Can you get all 4 bolts in each flange or are the top inside 2 impossible to get a bolt in :dunno:

Keep the progress up and you will back to flying tomorrow!

:BC:

The blue head does not have the bolt on the water pump housing like the grey had does. No issues with the Y pipe and yes you can only put two bolts on each side in...never figured that one out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The blue head does not have the bolt on the water pump housing like the grey had does. No issues with the Y pipe and yes you can only put two bolts on each side in...never figured that one out...

Thats going to be a nice reliable set up.Makes me want to go out and get a new Blue head but I better wait. I cant believe how much crap cost for even these little airplanes.Looks like your doing a sanitary job and its nice to have Leni on this forum along with other people for advise.Hope I dont piss anyone off when I have to ask questions because I figure I better get this right the first time around. Plus I havent flown on a steady diet since the late 80,s. Nice job, Im anxious to see if the performance is the same or better. Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thats going to be a nice reliable set up.Makes me want to go out and get a new Blue head but I better wait. I cant believe how much crap cost for even these little airplanes.Looks like your doing a sanitary job and its nice to have Leni on this forum along with other people for advise.Hope I dont piss anyone off when I have to ask questions because I figure I better get this right the first time around. Plus I havent flown on a steady diet since the late 80,s. Nice job, Im anxious to see if the performance is the same or better. Randy

Anybody gets pissed because anyone asks questions and I will :biggun: their ass :lol:

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Anybody gets pissed because anyone asks questions and I will :biggun: their ass :lol:

:BC:

Right on !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Here is the stuff my engine and gearbox is painted with. Calfifornia Power systems part# 9643. I could not find it in the catalog or on the site but when I called they knew what it was. It was $30 for the can but it only took two coats to do gearbox. A can will go a long ways. This stuff is heavy duty.

IMG_5389.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well I think I came up with a solution for the elbow in my cooling system. I called 20 places today trying to find a 1" 90 degree elbow with pipe fittings on the ends. No one had anything like that. I finally ended up at Home Depot. This fitting is actually a 3/4" copper elbow fitting with flared ends so the OD is pretty dang close to 1". The pipe fit snut but not as tight as it would have if it was a correct pipe fitting. I tighened the crap out of a couple hose clamps on it. I haven't filled the radiator yet because I didn't have any distilled water. Can anyone forsee any issues with this set up that I should address before I button up this project. If it doesn't leak I think it should work fine. Lots of cars use copper fittings for stuff. Thoughts...I'm open to any and all suggestions.

IMG_5412.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well I think I came up with a solution for the elbow in my cooling system. I called 20 places today trying to find a 1" 90 degree elbow with pipe fittings on the ends. No one had anything like that. I finally ended up at Home Depot. This fitting is actually a 3/4" copper elbow fitting with flared ends so the OD is pretty dang close to 1". The pipe fit snut but not as tight as it would have if it was a correct pipe fitting. I tighened the crap out of a couple hose clamps on it. I haven't filled the radiator yet because I didn't have any distilled water. Can anyone forsee any issues with this set up that I should address before I button up this project. If it doesn't leak I think it should work fine. Lots of cars use copper fittings for stuff. Thoughts...I'm open to any and all suggestions.

IMG_5412.jpg

I think the copper will work fine. The guy that I bought my 582 from used copper on for all the fittings.He used 3/4 elbows as you did then he soldered a wire on each end to keep hose from slipping off.In other words he wrapped wire all the way around so it form a lip for the clamp.I have seen this on Kitfox websites before so it must be ok.Kitfox used to make the radiator filler with copper and they didnt use an expansion tank and it worked real well.Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well I think I came up with a solution for the elbow in my cooling system. I called 20 places today trying to find a 1" 90 degree elbow with pipe fittings on the ends. No one had anything like that. I finally ended up at Home Depot. This fitting is actually a 3/4" copper elbow fitting with flared ends so the OD is pretty dang close to 1". The pipe fit snut but not as tight as it would have if it was a correct pipe fitting. I tighened the crap out of a couple hose clamps on it. I haven't filled the radiator yet because I didn't have any distilled water. Can anyone forsee any issues with this set up that I should address before I button up this project. If it doesn't leak I think it should work fine. Lots of cars use copper fittings for stuff. Thoughts...I'm open to any and all suggestions.

IMG_5412.jpg

That is how mine and a couple others here are plumbed. No issues with leaks etc.

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well I feel like an idiot. I had told the engine builder about this dilemma this morning and he replied this evening by email telling me to swap out the fittings because they are exactly the same. Doh! 20 minutes later I had them swapped, problem solved. Good thing I spent half a day running around town and $15 on parts! Thank you for the replies. I'm sure it would have worked but feel much more comfortable with the original setup.

IMG_5413.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well I feel like an idiot. I had told the engine builder about this dilemma this morning and he replied this evening by email telling me to swap out the fittings because they are exactly the same. Doh! 20 minutes later I had them swapped, problem solved. Good thing I spent half a day running around town and $15 on parts! Thank you for the replies. I'm sure it would have worked but feel much more comfortable with the original setup.

Well Duuuhhhhhh... :lol: I thought you had already shipped the GH back. The original setup does look better, but the other would have worked with no worries! When I swapped over the belly radiator, I had to do some creative copper work to get it all hooked up.

If all goes as planned, I will be picking up the new sled tomorrow and starting my little engine swap project.

:BC:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The soldered wire idea is really a great one.

I was going to suggest at least scuffing the mating surfaces of the copper really well to let the hose have something rough to grip on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Never got it fired today I got busy. Did get the radiator filled and burped and though. I'm waiting on some parts from warpdrive before I bolt my prop back on. The bolts were pretty nasty that held the prop onto the hub and my clamping blocks looked pretty weathered so I'm replacing those and all the hardware. Pretty good insurance for $50 worth of parts. Cost me $97 to ship my old engine from Norcal to Naples Florida today...not too shabby. Hoping to get it back out to the airport tomorrow. I need my garage back!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The swap is complete! Fluids are topped off.. I even filled the header tank and connected the battery. She is ready to fire but I ran out of time today to fire it up. Probably take it out to the airport on Friday. I finally got my shipment from Warp Drive today. I replaced all my prop mounting hardware along with the clamping blocks. I also sandblasted the aluminum spacers and blinged them up with some steel wool. They were peeling black nasty paint before.

The completed project

IMG_5416.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0