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Kitfox II vs III visual clues in kit form?

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Posted

Hey Guys,

There is an unbuilt Kitfox II kit in Reno for sale, $3k asking.  The KF-II doesn't fit my mission, but I'm going to give the guy a call just in case there is a remote chance that it's incorrectly advertised and might be a KF-III.   Can someone provide a couple visual clues that would indicate which model; spar wall thickness, vertical stab chord or span, or something like that?

https://reno.craigslist.org/spo/5766311553.html

Thanks!

-Shua

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Posted (edited)

Very little difference - Spars on both are .065, as are all Kitfoxes, from 1 thru 7.  The struts on the 2 are attached BY THE BUILDER at about 86" from wing root, where the 3 struts attach BY THE BUILDER at about 96" out.  3 struts are 7/8" diameter, unless they have been replaced with the 1" struts that KF now sells for them.  Weight on 2 is 950, and 3 is 1050.  I am going out to measure the VS on the 2, but don't think I can get to the 3 to measure - I think all the differences are in Ed Downs book, Flying the Kitfox.    If you need more, let me know.  Also check sn and we can verify by that.  Of course, you can always make modifications - that's the good part of Experimental.   You can also change washout from 1 1/2" to only 1/2" to try for more cruise.  EDMO

Stand by for edit for measurements:  KF2 VS is 44".  Ed Downs books says model 2 is SN 258 to 448 and model 3 starts with SN 749 to 1215 and has a larger VS and rudder, heavier cross tubes and struts..

I would give 3K for a model 2 kit if it was close enough for me to get to - the wings alone are worth that, and you can easily build it like a 3 with some minor modifications, or even like a 4 with modified ribs and a 54"VS, which you can do as a builder.  You can even put "Model 2/3" on the paperwork and on the data plate if you want to.

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

S/N 1071!!!!

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Posted

S/N 1071!!!!

YOU GOT A 3 !!!  REAL BARGAIN!  CONGRATS!   EDMO

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Posted

Jump on it.  NOW!  JImChuk

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Posted

Ok ok!  I'm in Colorado on vacation, back on Friday.  I'll report back after I see it.

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Posted

Ok ok!  I'm in Colorado on vacation, back on Friday.  I'll report back after I see it.

I WOULD send him a $100 deposit to hold it - like NOW!   EDMO

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Posted

Contacted him, and we have agreed to a date to view it.

If I get it, then I get it.  If not, then it wasn't ment to be.  

Thanks for the help everyone, especially Ed.

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Posted

We will all be waiting for reports - and always ready to try to help.  EDMO

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Posted

Hey Guys,

There is an unbuilt Kitfox II kit in Reno for sale, $3k asking.  The KF-II doesn't fit my mission, but I'm going to give the guy a call just in case there is a remote chance that it's incorrectly advertised and might be a KF-III.   Can someone provide a couple visual clues that would indicate which model; spar wall thickness, vertical stab chord or span, or something like that?

https://reno.craigslist.org/spo/5766311553.html

Thanks!

-Shua

Thanks for the CL link im gonna go pick it up tomorrow he he JK,

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Posted

Great find! 

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Posted

Here are the two photos that he's sent.  The S/N he provided was based on the data tag in the photo.

6860.jpeg

6860.jpeg

iPhone photos June 2014 247.JPG

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Posted

That would be a bargain at twice the price he is asking!  After I got it home, I would still check to see if the numbers on the fuselage match the data plate, which you will want to change if it has the builder's name already stamped on it.  EAA has a packet of documents to help you get it licensed, and it includes some decals and a new data plate that is smaller than the one shown.  EDMO

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Posted

Very cool, thanks Ed!

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Posted

I think you should paypal him some money to hold it for you, before someone else does.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

Jim,

Ok ok ok!  I'm PayPal-ing a hold deposit right now...

Found this model 2 on a Google Image search.  Notice the difference in the door shape and tubing configuration under the door. I think this one in Reno really is a 3.

 

img_0516.jpg

Edited by nemesisnxt

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Posted

In Salt Lake City.  Headed home on I-80 in just a few minutes.  Might be able to view it tonight if the seller is available.  Although the Bronco's season opener is tonight.  Hmm...

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Posted (edited)

Jim,

Ok ok ok!  I'm PayPal-ing a hold deposit right now...

Found this model 2 on a Google Image search.  Notice the difference in the door shape and tubing configuration under the door. I think this one in Reno really is a 3.

 

img_0516.jpg

Maybe not correct - Looks like KF1 - I have samples of both.   Hurry - Jim and I have been pricing airline tickets to NV and U-Haul prices to drive truck back!  :lol:  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I see 4 doors.  Two silver and two red.

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Posted

It's a model 3. In addition to the door opening and other fuselage tubing differences, note the extra float fitting forward of the main landing gear brackets which the model 2 did not have.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe there were some variations of the model 2 - The yellow KF2 photo shows door openings like my KF1, but the KF2 that I copied my modified clone from had door openings the same as the red KF3 shown, although it only had a 44" VS originally.  

I didn't put any gear or float brackets on my longerons because I built it for Grove tri-gear. 

 Best to check the fuselage for SN stamped on it, but it really don't make any difference if you build it as a 3.   EdMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

There won't be any S/N stamped on the fuse, Denney Aerocraft didn't start doing that until the 4-1050 models IIRC. I sure as hell wouldn't build a stock model 2 and list MTOW as a model 3. That would be just the opening some ambulance chasing attorney or insurance co. needed to make your life miserable FOREVER...

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Posted (edited)

There won't be any S/N stamped on the fuse, Denney Aerocraft didn't start doing that until the 4-1050 models IIRC. I sure as hell wouldn't build a stock model 2 and list MTOW as a model 3. That would be just the opening some ambulance chasing attorney or insurance co. needed to make your life miserable FOREVER...

Doug,  I would take that bet - both of mine 2 & 3, maybe the 1, had SN stamped on the fuselage.  I doubt that I can take a photo plain enough to show you, but I know it is there.  Oh hell, model 3, SN 1155 is hanging up high where I cant get to the number anyway, but it was stamped on the center shoulderbelt triangle tab in the center - the 2 SN 2xx was stamped on the left side tab.   I have heard that some were stamped somewhere underneath.   I don't think you list a MTOW anyway - That's Kitfox advertising - but you list the heaviest weight you have flown it at in Phase 1.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Jim,

Ok ok ok!  I'm PayPal-ing a hold deposit right now...

Found this model 2 on a Google Image search.  Notice the difference  the door shape and tubing configuration under the door. I think this one in Reno really is a 3.

 

img_0516.jpg

You are 100% correct, I have samples of both.   Hurry - Jim and I have been pricing airline tickets to NV and U-Haul prices to drive truck back!  :lol:  EDMO

He's holding it till the 18th for me.  Hahaha!

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Posted (edited)

Ed, I've owned two KF3's (863 & 1017), one 4-1050 (1762) and one 4-1200 (1901). The only one with any identifying mark was the 4-1050 with the S/N stamped on the center safety harness mounting tab. This was consistent with everything I read.

Re MTOW: I suspect it would not matter one single wit to an attorney that MTOW is not listed in the FAA paperwork. There is soooo much info on the structural differences between the two models. Added to the fact that the recommended gross weight ratings from Denney Aerocraft were clearly different, as builder/manufacturer you invite the legal liability B.S. trying to pass off a stock KF2 with a higher gross. Again, YMMV, but I would not do it. Either I have too much to lose or can't afford to lose what I have. Been involved in legal issues from both sides of the table and the only folks that make out are the lawyers who have a talent for milking everybody/everything bone dry regardless of culpability. And then, of course, is the wild card associated with a Jury of your 'Peers' whose only exposure to aviation is hopping on the vacation jet... 

Edited by dholly

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