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Kitfox II vs III visual clues in kit form?

66 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

My empty weight is 570 lbs with a 582, however I have added bush gear, larger tail-wheel, larger (rudder, vertical stab & elevator), elevator trim, PVC strut fairings and wide body kit.  Avg Model III empty weight is listed as 550 lbs per the Kitfox Pilots Guide (by Ed Downs).  Doug do you recall the empty weight of your Model III?

Model 3 POH says 440 lbs. empty. Mine was built light, very light (didn't even have radio, seats or baggage sack originally), but eventually got a lot fatter with Grove gear, tailwheel and big tires, upholstery etc. 

[edit] Note the 950 Gross Wt. on the CG sheet is incorrect, should be 1050 lbs. 

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Edited by dholly

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Posted

You guys are making me nervous.  So is it not possible to come in under 550lbs with a 912, bush gear, and model IV vertical?

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Posted (edited)

I have never had any of my planes weighed at a ramp check -  I can Believe the ones who are flying in Alaska, these planes are flown a lot of the time over Gross.  There is a safety factor of about 1.5 for most planes - 200 lbs over listed weight is not going to break them!   Kitfox uses same basic wings for all models up to 1550 lbs GW.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Here is my take on the weight.  I've had 2 Avid MK IVs, and they both weighed about 585 lb.  One had a Jabiru engine and the other had a 582 Rotax.  The Avid MK IV is very similar to the Kitfox 3, although it has a 2' shorter wing span then the Kitfox.  Both of those engines have a lower flying weight than a 912.   My Kitfox 1 with 582 B box and electric start weighs 500 lbs and doesn't have much of anything extra on it.  Not sure why it's as heavy as it is.  I had an Avid B that weighed 445 lbs and that was super light.  Rope start, and no battery in it however.   Based on the above, I don't think your Kitfox 3 with a 912 will weigh 550 lbs or less.  JImChuk

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Posted

My empty weight is 570 lbs with a 582, however I have added bush gear, larger tail-wheel, larger (rudder, vertical stab & elevator), elevator trim, PVC strut fairings and wide body kit.  Avg Model III empty weight is listed as 550 lbs per the Kitfox Pilots Guide (by Ed Downs).  Doug do you recall the empty weight of your Model III?

Model 3 POH says 440 lbs. empty. Mine was built light, very light (didn't even have radio, seats or baggage sack originally), but eventually got a lot fatter with Grove gear, tailwheel and big tires, upholstery etc. 

[edit] Note the 950 Gross Wt. on the CG sheet is incorrect, should be 1050 lbs. 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Thanks for posting Doug.  Amazing it came in that light.  Hard to believe I would have over 100 lbs of extra stuff (I was guessing maybe 20 lbs worth).  Using lightweight fabric and just enough coats etc.

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Posted

I took a look at it today.  Here is a list of observations:

1) It's for sure a model 3, no doubt in my mind.

2) Kit is incomplete, not much for extras.  Missing ribs, wing tips, maybe more.

3) No covering, no FWF, no upgrades whatsoever (except dual brakes)

4) He has confused the models.  He HAS a model 3, and has a set of model 4 flaperons and model 4 ribs.  Just two model 3 ribs.

5). Everything appears to be in good to great condition.

Photos to follow:

IMG_20160912_170816719_HDR.jpg

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Posted

IMG_20160912_171215005_HDR.jpg

IMG_20160912_171052576.jpg

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Posted (edited)

That's a good upgrade if it has model 4 wings and flaperons - now you just need to upgrade the controls if that is not included, and I believe Kitfox had a kit to upgrade the 3 to the differential controls.   You can buy or make more model 4 ribs if you need them.    EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

IMG_20160912_171709321.jpg

IMG_20160912_171045062.jpg

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Posted

IMG_20160912_171611377.jpg

IMG_20160912_171606578.jpg

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Posted

The extra flaperons are worth some $ which ever wing you decide to build, you will have an extra set to sell.   Are the spars for the wings with the kit?   Is that a couple of 2 1/2" spars in the second to last pics?   Looks like a good deal, better with the spars.  I priced spars from Kitfox last fall, and they were 160 each.  Plus stiffeners.  Just aircraft had them for 135 + 35 or 40 each for the stiffeners and he said he would slide the stiffeners into the spar to save on the shipping.   JImChuk

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Posted

Gents,

Thanks for all your help, but this aircraft just isn't for me.  

I've added up all the wants and needs to make this aircraft fit my mission, and its just too much time and money.  I'd spend more money upgrading this one than I would buying a complete IV.  That IV flight control upgrade is over $2000.  So now I have a $5000+ kit that still needs ribs and winglets, and a bigger tail. And I'd still have a 1050 gross fox that flies 20mph slower than a IV.  I've seen model IVs pop up for less than $10k with FWF, Grove gear, Electric trim, quick build wing, and more.  Heck, there is a IV built and flying with a 912 on Barnstormers for $18k!

From previous posts I'm seeing that with these mods I will be well over 550lbs.

I need a model IV-1200 or newer, otherwise I'm just wasting my time. I suppose I could buy and flip it, but that's not for me either,

All of you were instrumental in keeping me from buying a mistake, despite the encouragement to buy.

Give him a call if you want it.  Otherwise he's going to list it on Barnstormers or TeamKitfox.

-Joshua

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Posted (edited)

Gents,

Thanks for all your help, but this aircraft just isn't for me.  

I've added up all the wants and needs to make this aircraft fit my mission, and its just too much time and money.  I'd spend more money upgrading this one than I would buying a complete IV.  That IV flight control upgrade is over $2000.  So now I have a $5000+ kit that still needs ribs and winglets, and a bigger tail. And I'd still have a 1050 gross fox that flies 20mph slower than a IV.  I've seen model IVs pop up for less than $10k with FWF, Grove gear, Electric trim, quick build wing, and more.  Heck, there is a IV built and flying with a 912 on Barnstormers for $18k!

From previous posts I'm seeing that with these mods I will be well over 550lbs.

I need a model IV-1200 or newer, otherwise I'm just wasting my time. I suppose I could buy and flip it, but that's not for me either,

All of you were instrumental in keeping me from buying a mistake, despite the encouragement to buy.

Give him a call if you want it.  Otherwise he's going to list it on Barnstormers or TeamKitfox.

-Joshua

Just a couple of parting notes for anyone:  1.  You do not have to buy the $2000 differential control kit to fly this.

2.  If you build the wings with Kitfox 4 ribs and flaperons, it should cruise about the same speed as the 4.

I sure hate to pass on it, but I've got my hands full, and too far away - I've got wings and things for a 3.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Yes, to far away for me as well, but a good deal for someone.  And Ed, I agree with you, it's the model 4 wings that give the extra speed.   Besides I have way to many projects now.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

So as I'm driving home from looking at the kit, my truck starts making a clunk clunk sound.  Took it to the shop, $3k in parts and labor.  Devine intervention?  Coincidence?  Hmmm.

Its the useful load more than the speed.  There will be another one.  Besides I really need to concentrate on my IFR rating (Dassault pays $80 per flight hour towards IFR rating as a work benefit), and my IA. 

I know I dont have to have the flight control upgrade to fly, believe me I tossed that back and forth a hundred times. 

You guys are right, this is a great deal for someone, sorry to disappoint.

Edited by nemesisnxt

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Posted

Since you are evidently rated more than just Sport Pilot, and would like more GW, maybe a Kitfox 5 will come along at the right price, or an Avid Airdale or Magnum.  Good Luck on your search, and let us know if you get a bird to build or fly.  Just wish I lived closer to grab the bargain!   EDMO

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