KFV with a subaru? Opinions please!

[Yamma-Fox 403]

Old member.  Had a KF2 on lotus floats.  Went to Maule for a few years.... want my EAB freedom, lotus floats (skis), and folding wings back!

Found a nearby KFV with a 118hp subaru with a NSI redrive.  It is in annual and has been flown regularly.  500 ttae

Guys over on kitfox forum are pretty negative on subaru (weight, reliability) and nsi (part availability).

Tell it to me straight, should I keep shopping?  Am I just setting myself up for a re-power project?

Would anyone here feel uneasy flying with the subaru keeping them above the terrain (or should i say - uneasier than with a 912!)

Thanks!

Edited 21 Sep 2016 by MN Kitfox 2

[EDMO 1078]

Here is opinion from a Soob-Lover:  The KF5 (1500 to 1550GW) was made so that you could use the Continental or Lycoming engines in it - The Soob EA-81 NSI is only a few pounds heavier than the small "aircraft" engines, but is short-stroked and better engineered, and runs a lot smoother on less fuel, in my opinion.  There have been several of them flying in Avids (850 to 1200GW), Airdales (1400GW) and Kitfoxes (850 to 1200GW) smaller than your KF5 with good results, and the Airdale was designed for it.  The Avid Magnum (1700GW) could even use a larger Soob engine in it.

If this is setup with the original computer ignition system, it will have a "limp-home" mode of about 3K rpm built into the system - If it has been converted to a standard ignition system eliminating the computer, then there is less likely going to be a failure.  Dual ignition systems have been made to convert the single-coil system and some worked and others did not.  Ask yourself this:  When is the last time you had an ignition coil quit in a car or truck? (Not counting the Rotax thingys, or "real" aircraft mags!)   I think Joey "C5Engineer" has an NSI engine for sale.

Randy "SuberAvid" on here has put many hours on his Subaru Stratus engine in Alaska, and I am building a smaller Kitfox clone with a Dave Johnson EA-81 Soob engine.   Some others on here are also building smaller GW planes than the KF5 for the EA-81 Soob engines.  These engines have been known to run 3 to 400,000 miles in cars with good maintenance without an overhaul.   I only know of one NSI crash, and it was due to a wire burned out that powered a fuel pump for the fuel-injected engine - not the fault of the engine.

I don't get on TKF because they are so negative about modifications that are not "factory approved", and I am definitely "Experimental minded".

My 2c worth, for what its worth!    EDMO

Edited 21 Sep 2016 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

BTW:  Did I happen to mention that if there were two Kitfox 5 planes for sale, and one had a Subaru EA-81 engine, and the other had a Continental or Lycoming, that I would buy the one with the Subaru engine?  Well, I would!   EDMO

[Yamma-Fox 403]

EDMO:

Great info!

Thanks a ton!

I too am a outside the box thinker, and just do not know much about the aircraft version subaru powerplant. Wasn't seeing much constructive on TKF except a reference to come here and ask! 

Thanks for the help starting to build my knowledge base.

PM'd you with a couple questions

[1avidflyer 1983]

I know of another Kitfox 4 that went down with a Subaru engine in the front.  He did hit a seagull that went through the cowl, breaking off a fuel line and starting the plane on fire.  Don't think you can blame that one on the engine though.  Guy's name was Howard Firm, and he walked away with bruises after landing on a taconite tailings pond near Virginia, Mn.  I also have a Subaru engine with a NSI gearbox on it.  I'm near Chisholm, Mn.   JImChuk

[Av8r3400 1179]

How much?

Anything over $20k, it ain't worth it.  Hold out for a 912 and you will have the performance and reliability an aircraft deserves. 

With a Subaru insurance will either be unattainable or so expensive it would make your Maul look cheap. 

Edited 21 Sep 2016 by Av8r3400

[Yamma-Fox 403]

I also have a Subaru engine with a NSI gearbox on it.  I'm near Chisholm, Mn.   JImChuk

Hey neighbor!   Thanks for the post.  And have you ever been down to the zorbaz ski plane fly in on little sand? (2 mi from my house)

[Yamma-Fox 403]

How much?

Anything over $20k, it ain't worth it.  Hold out for a 912 and you will have the performance and reliability an aircraft deserves. 

With a Subaru insurance will either be unattainable or so expensive it would make your Maul look cheap. 

Good post.  I need a variety of ideas here and my first instinct was as you wrote. 

This one is about 20k and that is what makes it hard...  could almost try it and see if I like the sub...  re-power to 912 if not.

Ballpark anyone on firewall fwd 118 hp nsi ready to run?

[1avidflyer 1983]

I also have a Subaru engine with a NSI gearbox on it.  I'm near Chisholm, Mn.   JImChuk

Hey neighbor!   Thanks for the post.  And have you ever been down to the zorbaz ski plane fly in on little sand? (2 mi from my house)

Never been over to zorbaz's.  Maybe one of these years.  JImChuk

[SuberAvid 617]

My Stratus Subaru EA81 has been very reliable for right near 500 hours now and it is no hangar queen.  I guess you build confidence in them as you fly them.

[LSaupe 123]

Now those are some fabulous shots!

[TJay 1041]

I saw one or two rocks in the middle of the runway though, not sure my Nancos are up for stuff like that ha,

[Yamma-Fox 403]

Those pics must be from far northern Minnesota?   (really, REALLY far!)

Haha!

I'll get there someday! 

Someday I tell ya....   someday!

For now, here ARE a couple of the Maule In MN:

[SuberAvid 617]

Nice!  You can't bet that for hauling your family.  Your kids are going to have great memories of flying adventures.

[IFMT 36]

My subaru EA 81powered MK 4 (80hp) is slowly getting put back together. With the weight of the soob it made a good single place plane. It could climb at 800+ fpm with me and full fuel. Put another person in and quite a bit less. The Avid wing at 29'10'' is not so forgiving with lots of weight. I don't know anything about the KFV wing. How much surface area? My engine never gave any trouble and I would say actually runs smoother than my 80hp 912. My soob install was done very professionally. Everything has been secured, shielded, proper fasteners, carb heat, etc. I see that some soob installs look more like they have been slapped into a go cart than properly mounted on an airframe. With the Avid I learned the hard way about slow approaches. The engine itself has been trouble free. Only problem I can remember was the foam in the air filter starting to disintegrate from age. How the plane actually flies with the engine is the bigger question. If you have enough wing area for a decent glide ratio and 118hp it should be a great flyer. The Maule you are used to certainly has a much bigger wing area. 

[Yamma-Fox 403]

My subaru EA 81powered MK 4 (80hp) is slowly getting put back together. With the weight of the soob it made a good single place plane...

Hi,

Thanks all for the help!

 

IFMT:  at a glance, looks loke mk4 wing area 122 sq ft,  KF 7 (5 should be same?) 132 sq ft.  So a little more capacity. 

Think I forgot to link the ad to the plane I'm looking at.  Can't see much in the pics, but maybe you soob experts could spot good/bad details? 

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1179189_Kitfox+Model+5.html

 

 

Edited 25 Sep 2016 by MN Kitfox 2

[Av8r3400 1179]

It looks to be a nicely done airplane from the photos.  (We all know how photos hide things, though.)

I don't have a Subaru, nor do I want one.  If you are comfortable with the engine, more power to you.  Remember, NSI no longer exists.  There will be no support for the redrive and specific engine parts except from other owners, caveat emptor.  Parts will be your own problem.  Bearings and such will, most likely, be available from bearing shops, but more technical information and larger specialized parts are all up to you.  If you believe in the essence of "Experimental" aviation and tinkering this could be a great plane.  The price is defiantly right.

 

A model V Kitfox with a Rotax 912 usually gets $40-60k on the open market.  So, even if you re-power it, you could get all or most of your money back out of it if the rest of the airframe is nice.

[EDMO 1078]

 New Parts for the Soobs are plentiful, and compete rebuild is as cheap as old Boxer VW car engines.   EDMO

Edited 25 Sep 2016 by EDMO

[IFMT 36]

The engine install looks great! Fly it and see how it performs. If you keep the speed up it will fly great. 80 mph is a nice cruise in my Mark 4. It is the slow flight that suffers. Keep it over a minimum of 50 on short final (just before flare) and you should be safe. Minimum 60 on approach. What is the empty weight? My soob was pretty much maintenance free besides oil changes and plugs. My engine is pretty much stock except for carb/ exhaust and timing. Are you looking for super short takeoff or is 5-700 feet good enough. My Mark 4 would get up around 450-500 feet. With the Kitfox airfoil and 118 horsepower if you coarsen the warp drive you should have 110-120mph easily. Take off run will suffer some.