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Bandit with Subaru engine


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Posted

Buying a Avid Bandit with a 100-HP Subaru engine.  Just getting conditional at the moment, so nothing much to write about except superlative workmanship from the builder.  Has very few hours, so wondering if anyone could chime in on performance and/or handling in a similar bird.  Have flown Tomahawk for the past 9 years and will have a bit of a learning curve.

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Posted (edited)

What is empty weight of that nose-heavy rocket?  I extended the leading edges 4" on my Kitfox clone wings to get the CG farther back with my Subaru engine and nose gear.

 Hoping you get some current time in a slow taildragger, Cub, Champ, etc., before tackling this handful - UNLESS it is a Nose-dragger, and I have never heard of a Bandit built that way.   Compared to the Bandit, the Traumahawk is a snail!  Do you have the tailwheel endorsement?

Post more please, and Welcome, DonH.   Where are you located?    EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Paperwork is with the bird, but I believe I remember it was 700+.  It is a tri-gear, (of which I'm kinda glad) although I flew a UL with a tailwheel for awhile.  I have some tailwheel time, but not an endorsement. Tried in a Champ, but I fought the Champ and the Champ won!  Located in mid-GA, PXE. It has the STOL wing, which probably will slow it down a bit.   Should have the conditional in about a week, so I'll post a pic and my test pilot report soon.  Thanks for the note.

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Posted (edited)

Paperwork is with the bird, but I believe I remember it was 700+.  It is a tri-gear, (of which I'm kinda glad) although I flew a UL with a tailwheel for awhile.  I have some tailwheel time, but not an endorsement. Tried in a Champ, but I fought the Champ and the Champ won!  Located in mid-GA, PXE. It has the STOL wing, which probably will slow it down a bit.   Should have the conditional in about a week, so I'll post a pic and my test pilot report soon.  Thanks for the note.

Thanks for posting Don - give us some specs and flying numbers when you get it.  If that is original Avid Mark IV-Bandit nose gear it is pedal-steered, unlike the Kitfox nosegear which is free-castering.   You should be able to handle it fine.  There are a very few of us ND flyers on here - Most are TD.

Yes, the STOL wing commonly hits a wall about 90 mph - some have said that adding VGs UNDER the leading edge will get maybe 10 mph more.  ???  And, some of the guys have added VGs under the horizontal stabilizer and taped the gaps in tailfeathers and said that control and stall was improved.   The Kitfox 4 and later "Riblett" wings get higher cruise speeds.  Search thru the old posts - there have been some about that on here.

EDMO  

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Everything checked out in the conditional.  Plan to run the Subaru engine Thursday AM and trailer it to PXE this weekend.  Test flight either Saturday or Sunday depending on weather.  Only shocker I've come up with so far was the cost of the insurance.  Twice as much as my Tomahawk!  Wonder if it's the "experimental" tag or the fact I've got zero time in an Avid?

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Posted

It'll go down after 100 hrs of tailwheel time.

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Posted (edited)

It'll go down after 100 hrs of tailwheel time.

he has a nosedragger!    Did you check thru EAA for insurance?   I would be shopping all companies if my insurance was too high.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Checking all available insurance providers, but looks like high is normal.  Such is life.... Edmo, do you (or anyone) have performance data on the tri-gear?  V speeds, stall speed, etc?  Performance data off the internet evidently is quite generic.  Would like some real-time data if I could get it.  Understand all are a bit different, so nothing would be gospel until I give it a try this weekend.

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Posted (edited)

Checking all available insurance providers, but looks like high is normal.  Such is life.... Edmo, do you (or anyone) have performance data on the tri-gear?  V speeds, stall speed, etc?  Performance data off the internet evidently is quite generic.  Would like some real-time data if I could get it.  Understand all are a bit different, so nothing would be gospel until I give it a try this weekend.

Some of the guys with flying Kitfoxes with Soobs might furnish some stats - SuberAvid's Taildragger Stratus would be probably a good comparison plane for weight, although he has big tires and IFA Ivo.  My data, and memories, went by the way of a divorce and moving about 10 tons of stuff several times - Sorry!   TRi-gear should be about same as TD, with maybe tiny-bit slower cruise and climb speeds.   I can look up some generic stats in Kitfox book, but it wont have Subaru info.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

A great POH link for an Avid C EA81 was posted yesterday by Doug A+ in AvidFoxflyers General Hanger for the MK4 w/ ea81 performance specs post.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Finally flying.  First impressions is that it flies a lot like a taildragger.  Lots of rudder play needed, or maybe that's because my Tomahawk needs little to none.  Slow-flying at 55, but tough keeping a level track.  Top level flight is around 97, and response is very quick and precise.  Not really impressed with climb, but that may be the pilot that needs a bit of tweaking. Slips are like dropping a rock.  Doesn't seem to want to float on touchdown, thought it would with the STOL wings.  Using a bit of throttle on landing, but again, maybe the pilot......  All in all, a good handling aircraft.  Only down side so far is getting into the cockpit.  Once again, maybe the pilot.......

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Posted

Only down side so far is getting into the cockpit.  Once again, maybe the pilot.......

Climb into the front seat of a J3 cub or a Champ a couple times then you will think getting into an Avid or kitfox is actually pretty easy.

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Posted

Good news!! And I appreciated your comments on how your bird flies.

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Posted

That's great the bird flies so well. The climb performance may be several things. What prop are you running? That alone will likely make the biggest difference after you know the carbs are set correctly and all other issues are worked out of the engine. 

I love seeing that others are flying their birds. Still makes me want to rebuild mine. Now if I could just sell the dang Sonerai project, finish the Pietenpol and rebuild the Pursang from scratch. 

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Posted

Don,   What prop are you using?  What static/climb rpm are you pulling?  What is your climb airspeed?  What is your Empty Weight?  

Several things that might tell if you can get better performance from your bird comparing it to others here.   EDMO

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Posted

Most obvious thing I found was a CG that was about an inch on the legal side of the forward limit(-11.185). Going to add 15 lbs to the tail end which will bring the CG to -14.5 (-16.5 aft limit).  Will give that a test run Thursday and see how that works.  Will work on performance after I can keep level flight without straining my right arm holding the stick back.

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Posted

Don.  Just a comment on holding the stick back, I recently flew my KF after doing some work to it. (First flight since I got it).  With a 12.47 CG I had to hold forward stick on takeoff, trim tab 00 and flaperons 00.  With a little altitude I could fly level either with full flaperons or fully deployed electric trim tab. We then raised front of the stab. To the top hole, the KF has 3 about 3/8" apart and "bingo" , nice and level now with no pressure.       Jack

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Posted

Good tip, Logtrucker.... That will be Friday's test run.

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Posted

Good tip, Logtrucker.... That will be Friday's test run.

Yes, good tip, but in your case you need to LOWER the stab to the lowest hole - should help.  EDMO

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Posted

Good results!  Added only 10lbs to the tail (inside at the conjunction of the tubes) and result was spectacular.  Bird jumped off the ground at takeoff; had to re-evaluate my stick control quickly.  Climb is 500-800 fpm, not sure if this is good or average.  Trim will hold level flight at cruise rpm, but not at full throttle.  Interesting.  Landing was a new experience with the stick so light.  Third one was decent and shouldn't have any problem getting used to the way it handles now.  Did try the flap control on final....pulled it back off quickly...thought I was going to stop in the air.  Will have to give that a try again at 3000' tomorrow so I'll have a bit of altitude to see what it really does and how slow it can go.  Did not have any extra holes in the stab connection, but won't need it now anyway.  Still, thanks for the tip.  Extending the stick is the next thing on the 'to do' list.  I use a cushion so my aged legs won't have to bend quite so much, and now I have to bend over to keep my hand on the stick.  A 4-inch extension should work fine on that.  Appreciate all the comments and tips, guys! 

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Posted (edited)

Glad it flies better Don.  I used to bring the Cessna in with full flaps and enough power to control my descent - once it hit the pavement the power was chopped and it was solidly on the ground with a short roll.  Watch your ASI and your VSI when you are playing with it a 3000 and you should get a good feel of how it acts with the flaperons down compared to not extending the flaps.   Depend on your feet for roll control at the low speeds, since your flaperons are not as effective when used as flaps.

BTW:  The wrecked KF3 I have has one straight stick and the other has the rearward bends like most Kitfoxes - anyone know why this might be?  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Update on the Bandit.  Lengthening the stick helps the control for me.  Gives me a little less 'joystick' feel and more of a 'control' feel.  Using the flaps at 3000', found out the bird will stay up at around 45 or maybe a little less.  Tried to stall on low power and couldn't.  Avid just started to sink, no buffeting or drama, just sinking.  Interesting for a Tomahawk pilot.  Didn't try a power-on stall.  Will save that for a couple more hours experience.  Landing with flaps full is a drop-down.  You get over your spot and you drop down.  'Bout the best I can describe it.  Short-field landing at it's best!  Finding out I have to lead with my foot on sharp turns. No ruddee -- no turnee.  Or at least no coordinated turn.  Learning...learning...  Next on the to-do list is brakes.  What I have now won't hold over 2500 rpm.  Will work on that next week.  Having fun!

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Posted (edited)

Don,  Guess you are fully aware of the Tomahawk possibility of going into a flat spin and not recover?  I have never flown one, but we had one at Av School and the instructors talked about that with the "Traumahawk".   Glad you are getting used to the Bandit.    EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Also a possibility of getting struck by lightning, Ed.  Probably about the same as a flat spin in a Tomahawk.  They aren't rated for spins, but having accidentally (I guess I have a habit of kicking the wrong rudder pedal) done a number of spins in the Tomahawk, I can personally attest that it's very easy to fly out of a spin in one.  You do have to fly out of it, you just can't turn loose of everything like you can in a 152.  Tomahawks have a rep that I think is very undeserved, although admittedly they require an experienced stick for some of their characteristics.  Guess they are a bit like sushi, you have to acquire a taste for 'em.

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Posted

My Cousin got knocked out by lightning - Became A&P in Marines!   EDMO

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