Converting a nose dragger

12 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi everyone,

Yes, I'm almost as new here as I am to the Kitfox Forum but I've recently been looking with a view to buy one of these type of aircraft and have begun digging more information on the Magnum. I have to take a lot of the information at face value, having never flown one, but they do seem to do exactly what I would like. The take off performance (probably the most important bit for me) is great and I do like the ability to carry a reasonable load and cruise at better than Kitfox speeds. I'm not concerned with the LSA side of things, so am more than happy to benefit from the 'full cream' version of an aircraft. Having said all of this, I have finally sourced what, to me, looks a decent aircraft but it has one problem; yes, the little wheel is at the wrong end :huh: Now, you'll have to forgive a complete numpty like me and I have, really, but one question: is the Magnum similar to the Kitfox, where converting from a nose dragger to tail dragger is quite a simple matter?

Of course, any other information you're able to divulge about the process would be excellent but I really do not want a nose wheel and it would be great news if converting was a matter of a few hours with a hacksaw and a hammer.................you can probably deduce that I've never been clever enough to build my own aircraft (Mr Boeing does a better job than I ever will).

Thank you for your forbearance and I welcome your comments ^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Hi Paul, welcome to AFF. The Magnum is a very capable aircraft and may well be one of the best kept secrets. Now and again you can find some real bargains on unfinished kits and prebuilts compared to the cost of a new KF7. To the best of my knowledge, there was never a factory offered Magnum 'convertible' option like the latest Kitfoxes. I would think that it would be easier to go from tri to TD vs. the other way around. Pretty sure Grove makes main spring gear for both Magnum models so maybe just a small bit of welding and fabric repair on the tail end to accommodate the new tail wheel along with new main Grove gear would get you what you want. Due to the forward sweep on the oem tube gear, which I believe is different for tri vs. TD's, I don't think you can just move or flip the tri gear mains. I'm sure some of the Magnum builders will chime in if I have that wrong or have a set of TD main gear for sale, but I would suggest you start with a call to Grove.

Edited by dholly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

PaulSS,   Welcome to the forum.

ChrisB has done a good steerable nose-dragger conversion on a heavy AVid, (he has a Magnum and another Big one), using a RANS fork with 6" nosewheel and the Avid type mount, and you might find info on it in his posts.   I am making a castoring nosegear, different than the standard kitfox, and uses the Cessna-Piper type fork for a 6" nosewheel.  Any nosegear mount will require welding since none were made for the Magnum.  If you can't find ChrisB's posts, then send him a PM about it.

A couple of our members are now selling-scrapping out Mark IV fuselages, and you might be able to get the nose gear mount off of one of them to weld to a Magnum, or use it as a pattern to make a heavier mount.

I welded and modified my fuselage to mount the Grove spring gear and used the TD  Kitfox 5 version because it is taller and good for 1550 GW, which should be close to normal Magnum flying weights.  Grove probably makes a stronger one for the Magnum which has a wider fuselage. 

Looking back at your post:  "I want to cruise better than Kitfox speeds"  That is NOT going to happen unless you build your Magnum wings using the Kitfox 4 and later Riblett type ribs, and change the washout to less than the plans call for, and then you will about equal advertised Kitfox speeds for the later models.   Our undercambered STOL or HH wings, like the Magnum uses, with our small engines, usually hit a cruise speed wall at about 90 to 100 mph.  The Magnum is a great plane, but you wont win any races with it if built to original plans.   One of our members is finishing a Magnum with an O-360 engine, and it will be interesting to get some speed numbers from him someday.

Here is a photo of an aftermarket spring-loaded nosewheel attachment that used to be made for the Avids and Challengers to replace the factory nose gear - It sold for $1000 new, but is no longer made.  ChrisB had one on his old plane and there are photos and videos of it running over boards, or rocks.  This one needs the attaching tube repaired or replaced.   ChrisB and I both have different designs, but this one really works good.

Hope this helps,   EDMO

IMG_1658.JPG

Edited by EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thank you for your replies so far and for taking the time to try and educate a complete novice. 

Dholly, that was what I was thinking when it comes to the actual operation i.e. replace the existing gear with the longer Grove struts (to get the prop further away from the ground) and do a bit of cutting and pasting down the back :wacko: I think I will dig out a load of the frame photos that people have posted and look more carefully at the taildragger setup before they get covered. It's not something I've really examined too carefully before but it might be an indication of just how difficult the cutting and pasting is.

EDMO, thank you for your detailed reply and links to useful 'experts to know' ^_^ I appreciate the hard work you're going through but, if I were to buy the aircraft I've seen, then I would be doing the opposite to you i.e. converting a nose wheel aircraft to a taildragger. Obviously it would be fitted with a nosegear mount at the moment but is it an easy job to just remove the gear from the mount? I would probably leave the mount where it is, just in case someone wished to change back to nosegear after me. The machine I'm lusting over has the IO 320 and 160hp and claims 130mph cruise speeds, so that is a very attractive claim. Good STOL capability, decent cruise and an 800lb useful load sounds just about ideal to me. No doubt I'll spend too much time wondering and it'll be sold the next time I look but I've also got to think about transporting it to either England or Australia........you guys have got it good in the States ;)

Incidentally, does anyone know how wide a Magnum is with the wings folded? I'm wondering if one would fit in a stock 20' or 40' shipping container.

Thanks again, everyone, it's just a shame we can't do this chatting stuff sat around a hangar with a beer or two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Paul,  I completely misunderstood your intentions.  The Magnum was only made as a taildragger, with no mount to convert to nose gear.     

My long-winded post assumed you wanted to convert one to a nose dragger.  Sorry.

Staying with the taildragger, you would probably get the prop higher by going to a Bush Cabane Gear instead of the Grove aluminum gear, unless you special ordered from Grove.   Dusty is in New Zealand, so you will have another to talk to close by if you go to Australia, and there are Avid-Kitfox flyers in England, France, Germany, Sweden, etc.. 

Cheers,  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The Magnum was only made as a taildragger, with no mount to convert to nose gear

Well that's brilliant news (for me). If they were originally made as taildraggers then clearly this one has been converted and possibly, maybe, perhaps it wouldn't be a huge deal to reveal the previous brackets, attachment points etc for the tailwheel. I think even I might be able to manage taking a nose wheel off......so long as my adjustable spanner (wrench) and hammer are all I need ???

Now over to Google to see what the Bush Cabana Gear is all about. Thanks EDMO ^_^ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The Magnum was only made as a taildragger, with no mount to convert to nose gear

Well that's brilliant news (for me). If they were originally made as taildraggers then clearly this one has been converted and possibly, maybe, perhaps it wouldn't be a huge deal to reveal the previous brackets, attachment points etc for the tailwheel. I think even I might be able to manage taking a nose wheel off......so long as my adjustable spanner (wrench) and hammer are all I need ???

Now over to Google to see what the Bush Cabana Gear is all about. Thanks EDMO ^_^ 

Unless the Magnum has been radically changed, all the original brackets for the gear and tailwheel should be there.  I retained the tailwheel fittings on my nosedragger because I still need a tailskid, and need to add a tailwheel to move it with the wings folded.  Look at photos of the Avids in the "My latest project MK4" posts above for the Bush Cabane Gears - Joey C5Engineer now has two different ones, and there is another type too.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

@Ed - The 160hp Magnum was good for 125-130mph. Also, Avid did produce both TD and Tri-gear versions of the Magnum. Announcement from May 1996 Flying Magazine.

@Paul - Grove does make both spring gears. If the TD version is not tall enough, they will add a couple inches if you ask.

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thanks Doug for the Magnum Tri-gear post - If I had known about it in 1996 I probably would have bought one! 

Always glad to learn what I missed out on...  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Paul,

I measured my Magnum width for you...it can be 98"-105"+, mine measures 98" measuring the front leading edge to leading edge, but when I measure it at the wing tips it is 105" wide.  This is because of the fairings on the struts hitting the sides and cargo door on the left side sticking out a little bit.   Hope that makes sense.

converting to a tail dragger should be easy.  Like mentioned above, the stock landing gear would move forward and the mounts should already be there.  The cabane style bush gear are starting to become easier to find because STOL aircraft have grown the market.  I borrowed some gear dimensions from guys building their own bungee gear on here and then gave those numbers to a guy that builds cabane style gear for Super Cubs.  It was really expensive, but I really like it too.  I will warn you that the Magnum gear is unique because the axle sits 6" forward of the leading gear mount...long story short, normal cabane gear have the axle inline with the front mount, so the upward forces will be exerted at a bit of an angle which might be problematic.  But that is why it is experimental...Look under the Magnum section and you will find pics and more info on the gear.  http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/1515-magnums-with-airdale-bush-gear/&page=1

 

If I had it to do all over again, the Grove Spring gear would have been a great choice for cost and simplicity of installation.

I am just finishing my Magnum, so I haven't flown it yet.  Chris B told me that the 160hp would be plenty of power and that the cruise speed of 120-130 is not because of the cruise range on the engine, but the most comfortable cruise speed.  I guess the flight controls get real light above that range and make for a bumpy ride, if I remember correctly.

I just went to the kitfox factory and got a good look at the S7.  It is basically the Magnum.  All of the measurements are close to the same, the wing is undercambered, same cargo weight capability, and they have gone to a Lycoming type engine (Actually Continental's experimental brand Titan).  The biggest difference was the air flow dividers and flat wing caps on the wing.  So I think finding a Magnum is the best choice for price alone.

 

Best of luck,

Ron

 

image.jpeg

Edited by RDavidson
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thank you all for your informative and extremely helpful posts. I think, looking at the photos of the Magnum for sale, that it was one of the ones that came as a nose wheel version because it has got the free castoring gear. So maybe I'd have to buy a hacksaw to go with my wrench and hammer. I don't know if this particular buy will ever come to fruition but even if it doesn't I'm certainly a look more clued up on an aircraft that I think would do what I want it to do in terms of STOL capability, load lift and cruise speed. The Nirvana of flying machines ^_^

Ron, I love your paint scheme and even better with the cowl extensions you've manufactured. I reckon even my wife would like that and she's not the biggest fan of aircraft (even if they do enable me to pay the bills). One day I may well steal some of your artistic talent and blatantly copy it :BC:

Edited by PaulSS
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks Paul!  It started with the vertical stripes and my friends giving me a hard time about it looking like a bee.  So what do you do when facing ridicule?  Embrace it!  Ha!

Good luck in whatever you choose!  Keep dreaming, building and flying!

Ron

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now