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Brought new plane home, find out engine is hatched...

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Posted

Sure looks like some kind of tubing, thin walled, painted, and then dropped into the mechanism to be eaten.

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Posted (edited)

Looks like a valve keeper to me.

Check to see which valve is missing one.

Edited by gregpro50
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Posted

The largest piece looks to me like some sort of washer with outer and perhaps inner rib.  Never had a Subaru apart, so I have no idea if there is anything inside that looks like that.  I would think if a valve keeper let go, they would have heard and felt the piston hitting the valve just before they started to glide down for the landing.   JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

I have taken a Soob apart, and have the drawings of all the parts, but I cant guess at where the FOD came from.  It could be that it came from outside the engine, from the valve assembly, a chipped tooth from a gear, or from the redrive - that sprag in the redrive can bang when freewheeling.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I say break out the wrenches, maybe it's not that bad.  One can always hope.  And there's really no other way to know.  Have to pull the engine off to make a jig for the other mount like Leni was talking about anyway.  It might not take very long to get this Subaru back into running condition.  Make the jig for the Yamaha before you tear it apart.  Worst case you haul the remains to the scrap yard, best case you're back flying again while you finish up everything you need to do with the Yamaha.  JImChuk

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Posted

Thanks guys!

Yeah the paint on that one big piece really makes me scratch my head!  It's got a washer like look to it.  Valve keeper is about right, but engine was seemingly running fine.  Pulling valve covers next time I'm out there is easy enough though.

And the quote from Colorado rebuilders is 2500-4000+ depending on what got "crunched" (ie crankshaft).  He was also concerned that the 118hp variant may use different pistons, cams, shaved head, ect. Which would complicate the rebuild.

That is a bit out of the budget.

So a less professional rebuild is the next option I guess....

Just don't know how far I want to go trying to revive this old injured horse!

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Posted (edited)

Watch out for extra spacer washers in the valve train if you take it apart - when the cam is ground for better torque, and the head is milled, sometimes they add washers to bring the rockers back into correct position for the pushrods to be the correct length.   Punch some holes in a cardboard or top of a box and mark the rows of holes Left & Right 1,2,3,4, and if you remove the pushrods, store them in the holes in the cardboard so they go back in the same places. 

Is it possible to only drop one valve keeper - Other than when you are installing them? - it was always both when I had it happen on Chevy engines - that was when a spring broke.  I slowly drove several miles on 5 cylinders once to get the big truck to a garage.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

If you're going to rip it apart and need some print guidance, a while back I posted an E81 engine service manual HERE

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Posted (edited)

It can drop a half of a keeper and still run.  The other half can still hold the valve.  It really looks like a keeper to me.

 

433-108_A.jpg

Edited by gregpro50
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Posted

It can drop a half of a keeper and still run.  The other half can still hold the valve.  It really looks like a keeper to me.

 

433-108_A.jpg

I agree with it looking like a keeper after seeing this picture. My question is how did it get into the oil filter? I'd have to look at a schematic of the oil system but it seems rather hard for it to get from the head to the filter. 

My brother purchased an engine once only to get it home and pull the heads to see how it looked. (He got it for $50). Someone thought they'd be cute and put pennies, nickels and dimes in each cylinder. It didn't look like it had been run that way and he luckily never gave the guy the money for it since he let him take it to inspect it. You never know about people. We both think it was the owners "friends" that did it to the engine. I am in no way saying this is what could have happened to your engine, just sharing a stupid people story. 

The good new is that if this is indeed just a valve keeper, there is a chance that there is no damage to the lower end. The pieces are all large enough to not have gotten into the lower end and messed up bearings. 

I echo what everyone else has said though. Pull the engine apart. These are very simple engines. Two hours of time will let you know what you need. You've probably already spent that much time on this forum and researching it on the internet. I know I would have if I were in your shoes. 

Let us know when you pull the valve covers what you find. 

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Posted

It really does look like a valve keeper!

And the prev owner did do a valve job on it, but it was about 100 hours ago.

And most of of the f.o.d. was in the oil tank (just downline from the oil pan).  Only those two small flakes in the filter.  I bought a filter opener and found nothing (big or small) in the filter material

20161114_133955.jpg

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Posted (edited)

It does look a bit like the keeper at least from the end.  Looks thin like a washer though also.  Easy to pull the valve covers and look.  Maybe you will luck out afterall  JImChuk

Edited by 1avidflyer

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Posted

Been thinking some more, and not sure if this makes sense or not, but I'll throw it out for you all to think about.  Could a hydrolic lifter partially bust up and have pieces show up that look like this?  I would think you would hear a lifter ticking at the very least, but maybe not??   I don't know, just trying to make sense of this.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

Jim, I guess that could happen and maybe there would be no ticking as long as the lifter held oil?  He may have solid lifters instead of hydraulic - they were made both ways - the cams will not interchange - I don't know which lifters NSI engines had - maybe both ways?  The later Soob station wagons had hydro lifters and larger valves.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Been busy taking care of domestic duties and junk here.  Going to work tonight.  Back mon night so I'll plan to have a look next week.  I'll put up some pics from under the valve cover.

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Posted

Ok.  Peeked around under the valve covers.... everything looking pretty good.

20161128_105526.thumb.jpg.71b5c3b4d339cf20161128_105504.thumb.jpg.c59144899e00f3

Noticed some light scuffing / scoring on two piston skirts, but it appears to be fairly minor.  Tried to get a pic of that but it was really a tough spot. Might see a little in the window between the pushrods:

20161128_104619.thumb.jpg.a3c32391ecd52a

 

Also pulled a few oil lines and the oil check valve (keeps oil from tank from draining down into motor when not in use).  There i found a little fod in pic below.  One ferrous piece, some red rtv, and a flexible plastic piece.

20161128_113228.thumb.jpg.eb1ca18f923f9b

Next I will pull oil pump and take it apart.  From looking at the oil system, it seems like that is where more fod would get trapped.

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Posted

top pic left side looks like part of the keeper is gone?  May just be the angle of the pic but that keeper looks different than all the rest.  RTV is all too often found inside engines left by builders who use WAY too much..

:BC:

 

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Posted

Yeah i checked and all the keepers were there, but ill double check cause the pic makes me doubt myself!

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Posted

That plastic piece looks like it could be a bearing cage..

 

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Posted

Bearing cage wouldn't be plastic though.. right?

I was thinking mangled up zip tie or plastic sleeve/washer.

Mysterious nonetheless!  And that painted piece earlier...

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Posted

I have seen lots of bearings with plastic cages... inside of engines and diffs. 

:BC:

 

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Posted

Plastic piece may be part of valve seal

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Posted (edited)

top pic left side looks like part of the keeper is gone?  May just be the angle of the pic but that keeper looks different than all the rest.  RTV is all too often found inside engines left by builders who use WAY too much..

:BC:

 

Couldn't agree more, It seems builders don't realize that if RTV is squeezing out the outside of the case, then just just as much is squeezing out the inside of the case,

Edited by TJay
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Posted

Yeah i checked and all the keepers were there, but ill double check cause the pic makes me doubt myself!

It is 'there' but it looks like the 'top' with the flange has come off, which matches the pieces you found.

Mark

 

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Posted

I think akflyer is right on the money with the plastic piece. Sure looks like part of a bearing cage. After expanding the picture, just can't imagine it being anything other than that.

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