Ford V6 3.3&3.8 with Prsu?

[Ironman Al 35]

Does anyone now anything about the alumimum head Ford V6 with a Northwest Aero PRSU? Ive noticed these types listed with imcompleted kits for sale, any good? How would it stack up against the Soob motors? Weight?

[lostman 198]

I owned a BD4 with the Ford 3.8 and PRSU. It was heavy!! I'm sure much heavier than a Soob. The big difference is that it was put in after an O-320 was removed so it's not really something you can compare. Supposedly it was made to turn up around 235 HP. I don't know how true that is though as I never flew my plane with it. It was just a project. I never even got to a point of doing weight and balance and I still think it was too nose heavy to work well. It did however run extremely smoothly.

Not sure what you're thinking about putting it on but I can't see it working on anything but a Magnum, even then it might be too much. 

[EDMO 1078]

I think I have a book on the Ford V6 in a plane - I agree with Lostman - think it is too heavy for anything but Magnum.  I will check the book later tonight and see if I can get any info for you.  I would probably go with a 2.5 or WRX Subaru instead for a Magnum, although I have a 400 V6 in my Ranger Truck.   EDMO

Edited 12 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

Al,  I have been trying to read my "Javelin Aircraft Ford V6" Service Manual, and so far all I have gotten is a headache - this is deep reading!  Is the 230V6  the same as 3.3 or 3.8 Liter?  And, I haven't read if this is the aluminum block - maybe you know?   I think the book was revised in 1989?     I think they were claiming 300 hp and with prsu and radiators was  lighter than a 200 hp Aircraft engine  (O-470)?    EDMO

Edited 13 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[lostman 198]

Al,  I have been trying to read my "Javelin Aircraft Ford V6" Service Manual, and so far all I have gotten is a headache - this is deep reading!  Is the 230V6  the same as 3.3 or 3.8 Liter?  And, I haven't read if this is the aluminum block - maybe you know?   I think the book was revised in 1989?     I think they were claiming 300 hp and with prsu and radiators was  lighter than a 200 hp Aircraft engine  (O-470)?    EDMO

Ed, that's exactly the engine I had in the BD. I can't see how it's possible for it to have produced the 235 HP that Blanton claimed. He didn't do anything to the inside of the engine other than a camshaft. It was a steel block with aluminum head. Evidently IF you could find an aluminum block it wasn't much lighter since you needed to brace between mains in order to have enough strength to produce the HP he was saying it did. This is all just what I remember though, I maybe off base a little. However coming from my experience as  a mechanic I don't see how it would do what he said it would other than be smooth running and low fuel burn. If he was indeed getting the HP numbers it was likely about the same weight as an O-470 or so. I can tell you that I couldn't push my 185 pounds on the tail and raise the nose one single inch though. I can't believe it was not completely too nose heavy to be out of CG limits for that airplane. It was the 3.8L from a Ford Thunderbird. I do remember than Blanton says you should start with a turbo engine and then remove the turbo though. Something about different rods or other internals, but that part is hazy in my mind. I sold the plane 8 years ago. 

[EDMO 1078]

Lostman,  Yep - Dave Blanton signed it, and it contains 12 Service letters - On page 79, 4 different versions claim 264 hp - guess the 300+ claim was something different, or a mis-claim.  I stopped reading about the time he started talking about a 4.6 Liter, 16 or 32 valve, engine that Ford was coming out with.   I don't even know much about what is in my used truck, except that it was the last pushrod big V6 engine before they went to overhead cams.  I just drive it enough to keep it running and take it to Ford every 2 years for inspection and an oil change, although it don't have the miles before change is due.   I have been looking for weights of engines, but not found any yet.  EDMO

Edited 13 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

Here is page from Finch book stating that the 3.8 Ford V6 with psru weighed 425 lbs and produced only 125 to 150 hp.  Although it is not in his book, the Subaru WRX (up to 300 hp) and other 4 cyl 2.5 Liter 165+ hp engines are probably in the 250 to 300 lb weights.  BTW:  This book is on ebay for $12 in one ad and $125 in another ad.   EDMO

Edited 13 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[lostman 198]

I can totally believe 125-150 HP from the 3.8. That to me is much more realistic. Personally I think the weight of the engine makes it a pig for HP output. It was smooth operating and I'm sure economical but that doesn't take away that it's actually heavier than an O-470 with much less power.

[Ironman Al 35]

The reason I asked about this Ford motor is that Ive acquired a Amphib.Sea plane with no motor , it had a Lycoming 0-360. Ive seen others like it useing this Ford V6 and wondered if they were very good.Thanks for the great info& feed back! Looks like if you can afford it, better to go with aircraft specific motors!

[lostman 198]

I honestly believe if you could get the 3.8 built up and have the horsepower that Dave said it did, it would be a great replacement engine. The issue is I just can't see it producing what he said it did and was really heavy for output. I never could substantiate it all though since I never got to fly my BD4. 

 

[EDMO 1078]

Note that the book says the Chevy 60 degree V6 is a lot lighter.  Steve Wittman used an Olds engine in the Tailwind.  EDMO

[lostman 198]

Note that the book says the Chevy 60 degree V6 is a lot lighter.  Steve Wittman used an Olds engine in the Tailwind.  EDMO

That may make sense actually. I know that Steve used the Buick 289 in the tailwind. He even did a major job of it and made it so it would fly inverted! I did some research into it. What a crazy idea, but it worked for him. Sad that he died due to a mx problem with his own aircraft, and such a simple one at that.

[EDMO 1078]

Maybe the Olds was in the Buttercup, or did that have an O-200?   or another Tailwind? - I know I read it about one of his planes.  I am using his, or maybe the Germans, tube-within-a-tube pivot tubes for my flaps and differential ailerons - that was the best I could come up with for a simple change from the flaperon controls that Dean designed.   The aileron tube goes thru the inside of the flap tube, and I used simple, separate controls.  EDMO

Edited 15 Dec 2016 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

I got my Tailwind booklet out last night and read about all the planes that Steve Wittman designed and built and the engines he used.  It describes, although not in enough detail to actually do it, all the changes he made to the Olds engine to get it to work inverted.   He sure knew how to get the most speed out of a plane.   There is another article about another guy putting fiberglass on his wood wings, and converting his Tailwind into a single seat because of his size. - interesting.   EDMO