New here

[ppilotmike 24]

Hi everyone. My name is Mike and I have been away from aviation for a couple of years due to some health issues, I am just getting older. I miss flying a lot. I am wanting to jump back in by building my own LSA qualified airplane. My last bird was a 39' 8A Luscombe so I have some taildragger experience, all told about 500 hours. I joined EAA again and I think I can do this. I was first drawn to the Avid/Kitfox design somewhere in the 80's when I saw my first one displayed at the Reno air races, even met Dan Denny. So moving up to current I have spotted a Bandit for sale on Barnstormers, its advertised as an unbuilt kit for $11K. If it is complete is this a decent deal? What questions should I ask of the seller? I would like to build the 50HP version with the 503, is that reasonable for a 200 Ib pilot? All comments are welcome and appreciated, thanks. Mike

P.S. I am retired from Skywest airlines as an A&P so I am not intimidated by tools or mechanical things.

[EDMO 1078]

Hi everyone. My name is Mike and I have been away from aviation for a couple of years due to some health issues, I am just getting older. I miss flying a lot. I am wanting to jump back in by building my own LSA qualified airplane. My last bird was a 39' 8A Luscombe so I have some taildragger experience, all told about 500 hours. I joined EAA again and I think I can do this. I was first drawn to the Avid/Kitfox design somewhere in the 80's when I saw my first one displayed at the Reno air races, even met Dan Denny. So moving up to current I have spotted a Bandit for sale on Barnstormers, its advertised as an unbuilt kit for $11K. If it is complete is this a decent deal? What questions should I ask of the seller? I would like to build the 50HP version with the 503, is that reasonable for a 200 Ib pilot? All comments are welcome and appreciated, thanks. Mike

P.S. I am retired from Skywest airlines as an A&P so I am not intimidated by tools or mechanical things.

Welcome aboard Mike,  We have a flying "Bandit" and maybe more on here that can answer your questions better than I can.  When you get a bird of some kind to build or fly be sure and post some notes and photos - We love photos and videos.  Any question you have on building or flying should get you several answers on here - this is a great bunch.  Where are you located?   EDMO

Edited 22 Mar 2017 by EDMO

[lostman 198]

Welcome to the group Mike. I can't tell you anything about the Bandit being a good deal or not but as Ed stated, someone will likely chime in shortly. 

[nlappos 413]

Mike

I am fairly new here, going on two years, and for what its worth, the various models of the Avid have varying useful loads that might drive your decision a bit. I ended up with a Mark IV "heavy hauler" because the MGW is 1150 lbs and the empty weight is usually about 550 lbs (with a Rotax 585, 65 HP engine) so the useful load is almost 600 lbs!  A Bandit has MGW of 950 lbs, but it is lighter than the IV, as well. It might be a good idea to check the kit to see what the declared MGW is.  A bit of a warning, some owners call their aircraft by a different model number so there can be confusion, the serial number should help know the real deal. Let the "guys" here know what you're looking at and they can confirm.

This forum has lots of info, and also the experts to help you make a good decision. Here is one thread that can help:  http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/3895-is-a-bandit-a-iv/

Here is where the models are explained a bit, and the serial numbers decoded: http://avidflyer.wikia.com/wiki/Models

and another: http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/540-how-to-tell-if-its-a-mkiv/

One piece of advice I will offer free of charge is to build one for the fun, but buy one in the mean time so you get 3 or 4 years more flying in! Barnstormers has Avids all the time for between 11 and 15K, ready to fly. The biggest problem Avid pilots seem to have is wiping the grins off their faces when the think about flying.

Good Luck and welcome!

[ppilotmike 24]

Thank you for the links nlappos . The reasons I am most interested in the Bandit are its cruise speed and weight. I will only be flying solo and within 50 miles or so of my home airport, which is Oscoda Mi. I really just want to get back in the air and enjoy practicing landings and basic air work the most, I love slow flight. On the topic of already built airplanes, should I consider one? It would defiantly get me back in the air quicker. What are my chances of finding a light weight Bandit most seem to have bigger engines and other mods already done. I have to admit I am really drawn to the side radiator mounting and center split cowling. Mike

[wypaul 448]

Price seems really high to me, does it have the engine?  When I bought my MK IV kit it came with a new 912 Rotax and I paid about the same as what you are talking.  By the time you complete that kit you can expect to have $14,000 rapped up in it and and some years of missed flying. As mentioned you could be flying a 582 powered Fox or Avid yet this spring for the same or less momey.  Don't get me wrong I love building and may build another plane someday but if you want to fly and go out and have some fun now.  Ok that's my two cents worth.  Welcome a board this is a great group that has a wealth of information what ever you decide.

[dholly 718]

Welcome Mike! Because you say you really just want to get back to flying, I will 2nd/3rd the motion of buying either a flyer or refurb. It WILL take longer than you expect to complete a full build, life has a way of getting in the way I have found! Yes, you might have to wait a bit to find the Avid/KF flyer you want for the price and accept some 'rough around the edges' issues, but I've seen it done. More than likely, particularly since we are coming up on Spring when For Sale prices seem highest, you will need to spend $15k-18k for a safe, ready to fly plane. More for a pristine example of workmanship. For the same $11k or so as this unstarted kit (which I agree is high unless it includes a new engine that needs very minimal $ to get in service), you might be able to find something that would only need a couple/few grand and weeks more to get airworthy. Assuming you're not afraid of a little work that is. I like this approach for those new to the Avid/KF aircraft, they may be simple compared to certified aircraft, but it's still valuable hands on time to really get to know your plane. Keep in mind almost anything goes in the E-AB world so, when buying a pre-built, a thorough inspection is always warranted. Unfortunately, the real bargains are found word of mouth and middle of winter. Good luck!

[nlappos 413]

Here you go:

EW=498 lbs, MGW = 1100

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Avid-Flyer-Speedwing-/182497270032?hash=item2a7daf5910:g:O34AAOSwYXVY0ISG&vxp=mtr

[EDMO 1078]

That should be worth a week vacation and a trip to Florida, or a couple of days to fly the hour and fly or ship it back!  EDMO

Here you go:

EW=498 lbs, MGW = 1100

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Avid-Flyer-Speedwing-/182497270032?hash=item2a7daf5910:g:O34AAOSwYXVY0ISG&vxp=mtr

 

Edited 23 Mar 2017 by EDMO

[ppilotmike 24]

I have looked at that and tried contacting the seller. He has not responded to my questions. It is SN 715, would that make this a "c"? It will be interesting to see where the final bidding falls. I have a friend in Fl that will look at it for me if the guy ever gets back to me. Mike

[1avidflyer 1983]

It would have to be a C model.  MK IVs serial # started at about 1000.  It doesn't have the rounded rudder of the MK IV either.   Empty weight of 498 is very, very light.  Also,  I didn't think the C model speedwing had a gross weight of 1100 lbs, but I've been wrong before.  Seems like a nice plane though none the less.  JImChuk

[nlappos 413]

I emailed the seller yesterday, he sent me those numbers on the weights. 

[ppilotmike 24]

Sorry I missed those #'s before. I am going to wait and see what happens towards the end of the auction, I noticed he added a couple pictures of the logbooks with the current condition inspection. He has it on Barnstormers as well for $9900, seems like a fair price and the video looks good on vimeo. Would I have to kind new gear legs to convert it to a conventional gear configuration? Can you still get heavy hauler wings from airdale or would I need to find them used? Mike

[1avidflyer 1983]

You need different gear for taildragger verses trike configuration.  It doesn't seem like Airdale is in business any longer.  I actually have a set of Heavy Hauler wings from a C model.  They need new rib tails put on.  Some day I may get to that project. ;-)  I'm sure there must be others around as well.  JImChuk

[nlappos 413]

Here is a good shot of the wing on that bird, looks like lots of ribs. Comments Guys?

Here, too, is a PDF on how the various wings are built.

Wing contruction.pdf

[EDMO 1078]

If you are not familiar with ebay auctions, I can tell you that when several are wanting an item, the bids get real fast and furious the last 30 seconds in the bidding, and I have lost items in the last 5 seconds of bidding.  Just put in your best maximum bid about a Minute before bidding ends and hope for the best!  EDMO

Edited 24 Mar 2017 by EDMO

[EDMO 1078]

Sorry I missed those #'s before. I am going to wait and see what happens towards the end of the auction, I noticed he added a couple pictures of the logbooks with the current condition inspection. He has it on Barnstormers as well for $9900, seems like a fair price and the video looks good on vimeo. Would I have to kind new gear legs to convert it to a conventional gear configuration? Can you still get heavy hauler wings from airdale or would I need to find them used? Mike

If you get this, I think I have a Kitfox set of TD gear legs and tailwheel that I would swap for your tri-gear setup if none is included in your deal.  Also, Kitfox wings are longer and will fit the Avid, but you have to change the strut fitting at fuselage end.  I have a set with droop tips for sale or trade.  EDMO

Edited 24 Mar 2017 by EDMO

[1avidflyer 1983]

I tried to put a set of Avid gear legs on a Kitfox 1 last summer, and they wouldn't work.  The bungees are further apart on the Kitfox if my memory is correct.  The brace tube that angels back was in the way of the bungee.  Until then, I thought that the gear were interchangeable, and said that in a post or two.  They will bolt on either plane however.  Maybe the Kitfox will work on the Avid, but not the other way around.  JImChuk

[EDMO 1078]

I tried to put a set of Avid gear legs on a Kitfox 1 last summer, and they wouldn't work.  The bungees are further apart on the Kitfox if my memory is correct.  The brace tube that angels back was in the way of the bungee.  Until then, I thought that the gear were interchangeable, and said that in a post or two.  They will bolt on either plane however.  Maybe the Kitfox will work on the Avid, but not the other way around.  JImChuk

Jim,  There were some posts on this a long time ago.  I sold a set of Kitfox legs to someone for an Avid, (birddog? High Country?), and guess they worked OK.  I am waiting for an Avid front end to put on my KF3, so I can use the Avid tri-gear.  EdMO

Edited 24 Mar 2017 by EDMO

[akflyer 1427]

I've put the avid wide gear on a kf 1, 3 and 4.  They work you just have to grind about 1/16" off either the front or rear mount lug to fit between the ears.  I also think I had to cut the tab off the end of the gear leg and take about 1/8" off the tube so they didn't hit on the narrower fuses.  you want to do that anyways and slip another tube inside there so they don't crack out at the toe of the weld.  put the tab back on and you can beat that gear up pretty good.

 

[TJay 1041]

There will probably be a flying Kitfox 1 up for sale soon in MN.

[1avidflyer 1983]

Well now I'm going to have to drag out my tape measure and do some double checking on the landing gear.  I know I tried to put the Avid gear on the Kitfox 1 and had to switch back to the old Kitfox  gear.   Reason for the change was the Kitfox had the early smaller style brake disks that bolted onto the inner edge of the hub, and I wanted to go with the later design that Avids and Kitfoxes use. Ended up using the Kitfox gear with a different plate welded on to hold the newer style brake cylinder.  JImChuk

[C5Engineer 1170]

I put a set of stock KF4 gear bungee gear on my Avid B model. Took a little bit of modding but nothing serious. Welcome to the forum! Gobs of information here and if you google particular stuff it'll usually link you to threads here. I have to agree that buying a flying airplane may be the better and cheaper way to go. You can always tinker on it to make it yours. I recently picked up a brand new flying MK4 for under 10K so IMO 11K is WAY too much for that Bandit unless it has absolutely everything there to finish to including covering materials that are new and not 15 years old. Most times these kits have been moved multiple times or sold several times and are missing parts and pieces. Occasionally you find a gem but even so they aren't getting that kind of money. If you are comfortable flying behind a 2-stroke they can be found for 10-12K in flying condition. The trick is finding the right one for your mission. Mark (Bandit) on here has over 1000 hours over the past 20 years on his 503 powered Bandit and he loves it. Others like me tend to carry and ton of crap and fly long distances so I have 28 gallons of fuel and extended baggage in mine. Lots of options out there and they pop up for sale fairly frequently.

[ppilotmike 24]

Fairfield Ca, Travis AFB. I spent my pre teen years growing up in Vacaville, 536 Cottonwood St. My Dad was stationed at Travis, 84th ATS MATS, flew the C-133. It was great place to grow up, when he was home we went to breakfast at the Nuttree where my first exposure  to GA took place fond memories for sure. Mike

[C5Engineer 1170]

Nice Mike I've been in the 22nd AS on C-5s and now the 6th ARS on KC-10s. Did my instrument rating out of Nut Tree and was hangared there until recently.