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Kitfox 3 Bushplane Project.

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Posted (edited)

Just checked my records.  Looks like one gallon per coat, so 1 gallon of white and 3 gallons of red.  If I had to do it over again I would have added another coat of red (4 coats --> 4 gallons) as some of the coverage is not the best in certain lighting conditions.

Edited by LSaupe

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Posted (edited)

Just checked my records.  Looks like one gallon per coat, so 1 gallon of white and 3 gallons of red.  If I had to do it over again I would have added another coat of red (4 coats --> 4 gallons) as some of the coverage is not the best in certain lighting conditions.

Larry, Since you used Stewarts glue, I guess you used that on the tapes too?  Can you describe how you went from there with the Poly Products - Did you then go with Poly brush, Silver ?coats, White and color?  Did you apply 8 coats like Poly describes, or some other procedure?  Did you keep a record of the costs?  Can you send me a copy of the Stewarts letter, or post it?  Thanks, EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

ok, guess I will order another gallon of the green. 

spent a couple hours making the last of the brackets, made the straps for the rudder pedals, and the gussets for the upper spar carry through tube. Made the ones for the spar carry through and engine mount out of thicker stock than all the rest. Just have to strip a bit more powdercoat and it will be ready for the metal melters to put it all together. Cannot wait to have this portion of the build behind me and move on to covering. 

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Posted

Something tells me you will be flying it sooner rather than later if you can keep up this pace!

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Posted (edited)

Something tells me you will be flying it sooner rather than later if you can keep up this pace!

That's the plan, Shooting for June! Just got word the motor is roughly 2 weeks out. Any word on when your buddies are getting back from down south? Spent a couple more hours stripping powdercoat and it's just about ready for them now

also- just weighed all the gussets, under 4 pounds total and widebody kit is just over 2 lbs, so roughly 6 lbs added with all of the strengthening.

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Hand washed these as well, they were pretty stained up and dingy but came back nicely!

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Edited by Neloner

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Posted

Pretty sure Sun n Fun goes thru this weekend.

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Posted

Just checked my records.  Looks like one gallon per coat, so 1 gallon of white and 3 gallons of red.  If I had to do it over again I would have added another coat of red (4 coats --> 4 gallons) as some of the coverage is not the best in certain lighting conditions.

Larry, Since you used Stewarts glue, I guess you used that on the tapes too?  Can you describe how you went from there with the Poly Products - Did you then go with Poly brush, Silver ?coats, White and color?  Did you apply 8 coats like Poly describes, or some other procedure?  Did you keep a record of the costs?  Can you send me a copy of the Stewarts letter, or post it?  Thanks, EDMO

Hi Ed:

Yes, I used the Stewarts glue on the tape as well.  After that, the brush on Polybrush, then spray on poly brush, then two or three coats of silver, then a coat of white, then three coats of red.  Everything after the Stewarts glue was Polyfiber according to the Poly procedures.  For the Stewarts letter, it might make more sense to have the individual contact them directly as I do not know, as it was intended for me, that it be circulated outside of the intended recipient. I did not keep a record of the costs.  I used lightweight fabric, a few quarts of Stewarts glue and the rest per Aircraft Spruce pricing for the products.

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Posted (edited)

Just checked my records.  Looks like one gallon per coat, so 1 gallon of white and 3 gallons of red.  If I had to do it over again I would have added another coat of red (4 coats --> 4 gallons) as some of the coverage is not the best in certain lighting conditions.

Larry, Since you used Stewarts glue, I guess you used that on the tapes too?  Can you describe how you went from there with the Poly Products - Did you then go with Poly brush, Silver ?coats, White and color?  Did you apply 8 coats like Poly describes, or some other procedure?  Did you keep a record of the costs?  Can you send me a copy of the Stewarts letter, or post it?  Thanks, EDMO

Hi Ed:

Yes, I used the Stewarts glue on the tape as well.  After that, the brush on Polybrush, then spray on poly brush, then two or three coats of silver, then a coat of white, then three coats of red.  Everything after the Stewarts glue was Polyfiber according to the Poly procedures.  For the Stewarts letter, it might make more sense to have the individual contact them directly as I do not know, as it was intended for me, that it be circulated outside of the intended recipient. I did not keep a record of the costs.  I used lightweight fabric, a few quarts of Stewarts glue and the rest per Aircraft Spruce pricing for the products.

Thanks for the info Larry.  Your bird really looks good, and I love the way Stewarts glue works. 

"Anything written or said can be leaked", just ask Hillary or Susan Rice.

EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I'm wondering why use the stewarts glue and then use poly fiber for everything else?  Poly tac seems to be easy to work with to me.  JImChuk

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Posted

Ease of use and fumes are a few of the primary reasons.  We did our wings and tail feathers right in our living room.  Cleans up with water.  Very easy to use and no fumes.

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Posted

Why all the gussets around the spar carry thru? Have you heard of them braking or are you setting this plane for a gross weight of 2500lbs?

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Posted

May as well add them now, my avid mkiv with 1150 gross had them, as do some of the larger gross later model planes. Dholly has a strengthener for the lower spar carry through as well. For the tiny weight gain figured it's worth sticking them in there, factory must have had a reason to put them in right?

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Posted

If you don't mind me asking What thickness is that rear spar carry thru? I know the kitfox 1-4 1050 has a 1 inch .049 wall.

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Posted

KF 3 f/r spar carry thru tubes were increased to 1" dia. x .035 wall

KF 4-1200 f/r spar carry thru tubes were increased to 1" dia. x .049 wall

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Posted

Not much to update yesterday and today, weather has been cold and drizzly and I just didnt have it in me to go out to the barn and work :(. Good news is that starting tomorrow the weather looks great for the next week so hoping to make some meaningful progress. Decided Im going to clean up the lift strut fairings and fill them so that I can have them painted without wrapping them in fabric like what was on it to start with. Thats how my Avid was done and I thought it looked much cleaner. Also going to grab a couple sheets of 060 polycarbonate and cut a new windscreen and windows. I was considering upping the windscreen to 093 but with the undercambered wing not sure its worth the weight gain and increased likelihood of crazing seeing as it wont be cruising much over 85-90. Opinions? Cost difference is minimal just trying to make the best choice. May also get going on the rib tail repair although still waiting on my spruce order which has the plywood in it. Also been watching stewarts systems videos like crazy trying to get the technique mastered before even opening a container :)

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Posted (edited)

I guess you are aware that the Stewarts UV coat will crinkle under the finish coat if you ever have mogas leak inside the wing.  That is why another builder used Stewarts glue and then went to the Poly Products materials.  I helped cover a J3 with the Stewarts System and really like how the glue works and not breathing MEK while gluing, but the crinkled paint that either High Country or Birddog showed made me think again about it.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Any issues with going with medium weight fabric on these birds?  I was warned by a local builder that the small tubing on these birds might not be able to support the extra tension from the heavier fabrics when they shrink.  Any experience one way or the other with this on these airframes?

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Posted

I used medium fabric on my entire plane.

Care should be taken with how much heat you apply.  Go in steps.  Too much heat and you will bend tubing, trailing edge, wood stringers and the like.

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Posted

I used Medium on my whole plane also I think I only shrunk to 300 or 325

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Posted (edited)

Call Stewarts if you have questions about using the 2.7 fabric.  After we bent a root rib on the J3, either Dan or Doug Stewart told us that the new fabric shrinks a lot more than the old fabric did.  He said not to heat it as much,  and they usually put 1.7 on the Kitfoxes they cover, which also takes less paint for a good finish.   Also on the undercamber to glue it to each rib and Starting in the middle, alternate shrinking in rib bays and after the first shrink to also alternate top and bottom bays of wings.    EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Spent today fighting a warp in my lift struts, they had a slight bend to them along their entire length that I could not get out until I finally removed the wooden speed fairings on the rear of them. As soon as the wood was removed they sprang back to straight, odd, Im thinking the builder had attached them with hysol in spots the length of the strut and the wood must have expanded forcing the tubes to arch away. Anyhow had to knock them all off, and am reattaching them with a solid line of hysol down the inside of the fairings. then going to fill with superfil and sand into a nice streamlined shape. pain in the butt!

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Posted

I would have thought that was just a little bit of 'preload'  built in :-)   Here is an interesting picture of a fully loaded wing undergoing a weight test.  Not a Kitfox, but wow, some real flexing going on.  JImChuk

loaded wing.jpg

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Posted (edited)

On the subject of wings:  I don't plan on ribstitching my wings, but will stitch my flaps and ailerons because there are no caps on the ribs.  Question:  On our planes, or the old, slow, fabric planes - were the HS, VS, Rudder, or Elevators ever ribstitched, especially the kind with wood ribs?   EDMO 

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Started reattaching the wooden fairings and noticed that both of them  from the leading tubes were significantly warped. Also they were heavier than I thought as well so decided I'm going to go without them, just blast and powdercoat the struts and leave it at that. So spent awhile with the heat gun removing all the hysol that was on them to make blasting easier. 

 

Edit: just weighed them and each piece is almost exactly 2lbs, times 4= 8 pounds plus probably .5 lb in Hysol and maybe .25 in body filler = 9 lbs off of the plane not using the speed fairings. Also decided Im going to just do the bottom of the plane in the medium fabric and the sides/ top/wings in lightweight, which should save ~3 lbs in fabric and a bit of weight in paint as well. Also pulled the Loran system and putting on much lighter NANCO tires, and will be removing the speed fairings from the gear as well. Not sure the what the weight penalty of the ULS with its high torque starter and slipper clutch is vs the old 912ul but hopefully the plane is equal to or lighter than it was when I started when its all done. 

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Edited by Neloner

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Posted

My Kitfox 4 project came from the factory  with high density foam pieces that were meant to be glued to the lifstruts and then sanded to shape.  No doubt that would be much lighter.  On the Avids, the wood strut fairing was supposed to be installed for structural reasons.  I don't think that was needed with the 1" liftstruts Kitfox used however.  Some have said that fairing the liftstruts gained them 10 - 15 MPH, so I would want the fairings for myself. Of course the lighter the better.  JImChuk

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