Hello From Canada Mark C Avid Project

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Posted

Hello!

I am Brent,  From Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Very new to the aircraft world.  In the middle of finishing my UL training right now and have just bought myself an Avid Model C HH project. 

Unfortunately the plane was hit with Hail and then sat outside for a few years. ( amazing what some people will do to a aircraft ) 

So I've been lurking around on this forum for quite a while now, Gathering information and i have to say there is a ton of it on here. 

The only bad thing is all the idea's a person gets.  Now all of a sudden i think i need a RX1, bubble doors, 27" rubber along with the appropriate landing gear, 

Oratex covering and the list goes on haha.   So right now i am  trying to settle down with the " wants "  and just get this thing airworthy and after i have some flight time with it, 

decide what id like to change at that point.   

The plane needs a total tear down and rebuild thanks to sitting outside for so long. 

Currently has a 582 blue head with an unknown amount of hours. Not sure if i'll jump straight to a rebuild or just have it inspected. 

Anyway look forward to being apart of this group1.thumb.jpg.5919b1341ae151fe78175138360f3.thumb.jpg.dd5e205b9beb3104de42d482b143new_2.thumb.jpg.67cc011e01f2d737324e74da

 

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Posted

Welcome to the group Brent.  I have been thru your city several times on trips to Alaska and back, and I have good memories of all the nice folks up there.  I think an inspection from someone familiar with the Avids or Kitfoxes and 582 engines would be your best next step.  Good Luck with your rebuild and flying.  EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Very cool!!! I took on an old neglected project that had been sitting for 15 or so years. It was time consuming to change out the windscreen, but it will be worth it!!! I can attest to that!!!

Add the wide gear, or tundra gear to that list!!! And If I was reskinning I would go for the lengthening kit as well! What is it? 18"?

 

Edited by Fly-n-Low
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Posted

What is the advantages of lengthening it? 

Definitely want wider gear and some 26 airstreaks.  It would be a very rare occurrence that it ever see's pavement. 

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Posted

Lengthening gives you more CG range and more tail authority, and really helps if you decide on a heavier engine than the 582.  EDMO

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Posted

Before you get too crazy with mods I'd recommend spending money on Gas and really getting comfortable with the airplane. All those mods equal weight and weight is the biggest enemy on these planes. 

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Posted

Probably a very good idea to hold off on most things until i get some stick time in with it. I guess my only issue with that idea is the plane is going to be completely torn apart, so if a guy was going to do things like a stretch now would be the time to do it. 

Tires on it now are completely weathered and cracked  so have to be replaced. Rather than buy another set of wheelbarrow tires like what's on it I should just buy what I'd want to end up with.  

I'll definitely be sticking with the 582 for a while,  I'll have it gone threw and rebuilt it necessary.

 

Are there any other "mods" a guy should consider before Skinning? Stuff you can't go back and do after the fact? 

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Posted

If your W/S or Skylight need replacing, give some thought about doing it in 2 pieces, and use a dark tinted material for the Skylight.  EDMO

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Posted

I would also widen the fuselage.  7' of 1/2" tubing on each side and it isn't really a structural change.  JImChuk

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Posted

Hi Brent ,welcome aboard,if you ever get across the Rockies im out here in B.C. ,good luck on the project

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Posted (edited)

I would also widen the fuselage.  7' of 1/2" tubing on each side and it isn't really a structural change.  JImChuk

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Jim,  I wasn't smart as you to put the double tube at the bottom of the door, so I had to bend my doors to make up for the extra 3" width on each side.  Question:  And my memory of part name just left me - The middle tube that runs from the door center to the tail, and was wood on the original Kitfox - Do you think that an aluminum tube would be strong enough for that, or use steel?  I forgot to weld mine on the left side.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I guess I would call it a stringer or former??  I used steel because I could weld it to the existing tubing, but if wood was strong enough originally, I would imaging aluminum would be as well.   I suppose your could epoxy steel into place as easily as wood or aluminum also.  It would be stiffer between the supports with the steel.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

I guess I would call it a stringer or former??  I used steel because I could weld it to the existing tubing, but if wood was strong enough originally, I would imaging aluminum would be as well.   I suppose your could epoxy steel into place as easily as wood or aluminum also.  It would be stiffer between the supports with the steel.  JImChuk

Thanks Jim.  I've got a little welding to do anyway, so will probably go with steel.  Was just wondering about aluminum.  I think I could rivet a triangle brace to the extension cross tube I welded in between the old and new points and it would support stringer whichever material I use.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Definitely have my attention with widening it. I can't imagine fitting 2 bigger guys in it. 

Do you have any pictures of the final product? It's hard for me to see what has changed as I am so new to these aircraft.  Is there plane or kits available? 

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Posted (edited)

Definitely have my attention with widening it. I can't imagine fitting 2 bigger guys in it. 

Do you have any pictures of the final product? It's hard for me to see what has changed as I am so new to these aircraft.  Is there plane or kits available? 

I think if you will just study the double-tubes in the photos at the rear and bottom of the door it should be clear.  This is a home-brewed project.  Just make sure your doors fit before and after welding.  I had to bend my doors at the rear middle because I didn't put the double tubes at the bottom like Jim did.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

Home brewed is right!  Here is the fuselage with fabric.  Notice the wide door frame opening.  On a stock fuselage that would be about 1/2" wide.  JImChuk

Photo0605.jpg

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Posted

Since I didn't double the bottom tube, mine tapers from the middle of the V at the rear down to the original tube at the bottom of the door opening.  EDMO

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Posted

Wow that looks great! Might be adding that one to my list. Did you also stretch the airframe?

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Posted

I didn't stretch mine, although I am using a Subaru EA-81 with Tri-gear.  I did extend the leading edge of my wing about 4" and modified the undercamber Eppler ribs to modified Riblett ribs like the Kitfox 4 and later use to hopefully get past the 90 mph wall that the undercambered wings seem to hit.  Also enlarged tailfeathers a LOT.  I am also changing flaperons to separate flaps and differential ailerons with separate controls.  Those changes add lots of time to building.  EDMO

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Posted

Since I didn't double the bottom tube, mine tapers from the middle of the V at the rear down to the original tube at the bottom of the door opening.  EDMO

Maybe you have a skinny butt Ed.... Not saying that I don't, in fact, not saying anything at all ;-)   JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

Since I didn't double the bottom tube, mine tapers from the middle of the V at the rear down to the original tube at the bottom of the door opening.  EDMO

Maybe you have a skinny butt Ed.... Not saying that I don't, in fact, not saying anything at all ;-)   JImChuk

My max weight in my prime was around 200 - normal average 170-180 - Now 160, and 1" shorter at 66":  My seats are about 6" or 10" more higher than the original Kitfox seats - I can get my old bones out of these easier and have a lot better visibility over the nose.  I raised my wings up 6".   Thanks,  I think?  ;<)  EDMO 

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

@Ed - I think the aluminum side stringer would wok ok, maybe add a standoff or two if you're worried about it oil canning under fabric tightening. It also seems to me on the KF 1-3, that the wood stringer might simply be loosened at the door frame, then re glued to the new wider frame. Ie, the first standoff is far enough aft that it might not really need to be extended. Maybe Tjay can verify.

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Posted

@Ed - I think the aluminum side stringer would wok ok, maybe add a standoff or two if you're worried about it oil canning under fabric tightening. It also seems to me on the KF 1-3, that the wood stringer might simply be loosened at the door frame, then re glued to the new wider frame. Ie, the first standoff is far enough aft that it might not really need to be extended. Maybe Tjay can verify.

Doug,  as you can see in the photos of Jim Chuk's widened fuselage, the first standoff was not lengthened.  My only concern about lengthening the first standoff is that the stringer might interfere with the struts when folding the wings.  I would just bend the new stringer a little if needed to match the old standoff.  I haven't checked all of this to see if it would matter.  Thanks for the opinion.  EDMO

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Posted

@Jim- I thought Murle's pre-cut Kit pieces were for a KF4. Did you mention you were adding to a model 3? Not sure his cost but we probably could have fabbed something up on our own with some 1/2" tubing easy enough.

@Ed- Jim added a separate piece of tubing from the new door framework that angles back to the original metal side stringer, which means lengthening the Avid standoff is unnecessary. This is where the Avid design differs from the KF with its wooden side stringer, can't weld that piece to a wooden stringer! Looking at pics of my old KF3, the lift strut when folded is fairly close to the fuse below the center side stringer, not so much above. Plus the KF standoff is located pretty close on the fuselage to where Jim tapered his new stringer tube to end, so I doubt clearance would be an issue. So why not just utilize the existing wooden KF side stringer without detaching from the standoff (basically just loosen the end from where it meets the original door frame and re-terminate it at the new door frame's rear "V" (or maybe ">" would be more accurate)? Obviously it would result in a more concave fuselage side profile directly behind the doors vs. Jim's but, as mentioned, one could always lengthen the first KF standoff slightly if preferred aesthetically. 

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Posted

Home brewed is right!  Here is the fuselage with fabric.  Notice the wide door frame opening.  On a stock fuselage that would be about 1/2" wide.  JImChuk

Photo0605.jpg

Did you have to mess with the doors are lot to get them to sit right? Or are you not quite there yet.  

after seeing this it's now on my must have list.  I plan on doing a ton of flying with friends and the extra room will make it so much more enjoyable 

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