Leslie R. Thomas - Avid Model B


61 posts in this topic

Posted

I have recently acquired a 1989 Avid Model B, N300TG, and its accompanying trailer.  Unfortunately, it had no logs for the airframe or the engine, so if you know anything about this aircraft, or its logs, please feel free to share.  I was told that this plane has not flown in a while, but has been at least regularly run, on a monthly basis, from the current owner.  Obviously the condition inspection was not current.

I was told that it had a Rotax 503, but when I went to look at it...I noted that it had a radiator....that didn't seem right.  It also had a single ignition, which I was not particularly happy with.  A bit of research later, I determined that this was not a 503, but a 532.  A 1989 aircraft, with a discontinued engine that few Rotax places will touch and around 230 hours on the hobbs.  I wasn't feeling comfortable with this arrangement.

I have found, and ordered, a Rotax 582 with 8 hours since new and a new Kiev propeller.  I plan on treating everything else like it is out of date, such as the bungees, and catching up on required maintenance based on that thought process.

Once I get everything up to par, I will get the condition inspection done and start dealing with the FAA, since I can obviously not prove that this aircraft had its 40 hours flown off with the required log book entry.

The current owner was promised the log books when he bought it, but the previous owner has not come through yet.  The current owner has promised to re-engage with the previous owner in the log book search and I have promised to pay the money that I deducted for their absence if he can produce the logs.  I am cautiously hopeful.

So I guess you could say that I have a project.

If I believed in bumper stickers, my one for here should read "My other plane is a Bonanza", so I have included a picture of it as well.

Looking forward to enjoying the Avid community!!!

AvidSpeedster.jpg

Bonanza.jpg

20170401_162607.jpg

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Posted

Nice trailer!  Looks like a nice little plane...

 

The 'Bo ain't bad either!

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Posted (edited)

Since this plane has been registered and has an N-number, you should be able to get a paper or CD copy of all the records for it by going on the FAA site.  Jim Chuk "1Avidflyer" knows more about doing this than I do.   I don't think that you have to have the original logbooks to be legal.   You may want to get the Operating Limitations changed to the current version which lets you do a major change with only a logbook entry.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Thanks Av8r.  The Bonanza has been my baby for some time now.  I also have a Raptor on order http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/ which will replace the Bonanza....I have #65 when they go into production.  They are still building the prototype and I hope it makes close to what the computer says that it should.  If the Raptor doesn't work out, I will have the Bonanza for as long as I fly.  Might put a IO-550 in for good measure ;)

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Posted

EDMO, the current owner has already ordered the CD and I am hoping that it has the operating limitations on it.  But what I don't believe will be in the FAA records is that it had its 40 hours flown off (Phase I) and without that I am not sure that I will be legal.  Of course I am somewhat new to Experimental, so I could be wrong.  I will probably ask EAA about it before saying anything to the FAA.  But, as I recall the exit from Phase I is just a sign off by the flying pilot in the log book...which I don't have.  One caveat is that back in the day, I read somewhere, they used to just issue a temporary airworthiness certificate until the aircraft exited Phase I, so the age of the aircraft may work in my favor.

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Posted (edited)

I was thinking that at one time the FSDO had to do something regarding the OPLims when it finished Phase 1, but could be mistaken on that.  I know that there had to be a logbook entry to take it into Phase 2 also.  What about the 230 hours  on the Hobbs - that might be some proof?  Good Luck and Good Flying.  Keep us posted.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I would ask, how many hours on the plane?  Never mind, just went back and reread your first post that says 230.  I had a similar situation with an airplane that had about 350 hrs on it, and no mention in the log books.  When I talked to the FAA guy, he said if it had that many hours on it, it was surly out of phase 1.  He sent me new operating limitations for phase 2 flight and said I was good to go.  He did know his stuff about experimental aircraft though, which can't be said about all FAA guys.  I would call the FSDO, and see if they have one guy who focuses on experiments more then the rest of them, and talk to him.  JImChuk

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Posted

Right, but you at least had a log book....I have a hobbs meter.  If they ever issued Phase II limitations and it made it into the FAA record, I may be golden.  Fingers and toes crossed.  I heard from the guy earlier and the trailer lights...I mean his truck connector is fixed.  So I should be meeting him half way tomorrow to bring her home!!!  Ordering parts, asking questions and spending money right now.

Think I will pull it into the driveway to give her a bath....and may crank over the 532, while it lasts, to make the neighbors stare ;)

lol

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Posted

I put a few hours on a couple of 532s in different Avids.  There was one in my plane that went about 325 hrs before they swapped it out for a 582.   They made about the same HP as a 582, and were easy to hand prop because of the points ignition.  JImChuk

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Posted

If I had engine logs so that I could verify total time on the engine, time since major overhaul and any history, I might run it for a while.  This is a potentially 28 year old two stroke engine with an unknown number of hours on it.  Seems prudent to pull it.  While I am waiting for the 582 to arrive, I definitely intend to use it to check gauges and some taxi runs though.  The deal I made with the guy in Oregon is that I will send it to him on consignment, where he will overhaul and try and resale it.  Anything above parts, labor and commission comes back to me.  I guess we will see how that goes.

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Posted (edited)

If you are not familiar with the AvidFoxes, there is a warning about "No Fast Taxi" from the guy who wrote the book on them.  

That's a good book to read, "Kitfox Pilots Guide" by Ed Downs, available from Kitfox.  It applies to Avids as well.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

Be sure to check out the files and forms section of the forum. Lots of people have contributed vast amounts of factory information there. Manuals, ADs, history of Avid Flyer, model and wing differences, 15 years of newsletters to name a few. 

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Posted

Appreciate it...already downloaded the Build Docs :D

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Posted

Considering the year, the door frame shape, and the wheels and tires I'm not 100% sure you don't have an A model. Where is the fuel tank? What is the width of the fuselage from door frame to door frame? I have a pretty good pile of parts for these early birds. A light A model with a 582 on it would be a rocket ship. They were originally flown with a 40HP Cayuna. The mechanical brakes are pretty much useless. I'd be interested in learning what your gross weight is going to be as it changed quite a bit throughout the models and the wing type.

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Posted

A real quick check to see if it's an A or B model is like Joey said.  The A will be 36" wide at the top of the seat, the B will be 39.5".   JImChuk

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Posted

With the tires.. I was thinking the same thing.. Easiest check that I knew was that the A model had a engine mount that was welded... This one was bolted on.. Not that would be hard to modify... It also has a 532...without logs... Don't know when... Waiting for the guy to meet me halfway now... Current owner said it was a B.. Of course same source said that it was a 503...serial number with the FAA is no help.. Guess... At this point.. I will just have to wait and see. 

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Posted

Something you can see at a glance is the shape of the door.  A model door looks like this Kitfox 1, later models look like this. (bottom is flat all the way back on later models)   JImChuk

Photo0149.jpg

Photo0605.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Ok, this just continues to get stranger.

Fuel tank is behind the panel (header tank) (Guessing A)

Data plate indicates model B

The cockpit at the back of the seat measures 36" (Model A)

Has wheelbarrow wheels and cable operated brakes (Model A)

Has motor mount bolted rather than welded (Model B+)

Rib spacing 18" (Model A or B)

Wing span: drawing says 23'8", I quickly measure 23'10"

Wing is undercambered

Only wood stringer is across the bottom center (Model C)

Kit was purchased from Light Aero Inc in September of 87 with serial number 300 (Model C)

Aircraft first Airworthy August 89 as Model B in CA with Phase I instructions

Aircraft was issued Airworthiness in Georgia (same owner) with 9.5 hours with request for certificate, Phase I instruction and Phase II instructions all on the same day in October of 89.

Airspeed indicator marked with VNE of 120mph.

Anyone want to hazard a guess on what the gross weight, VNE or even how to start a weight and balance on this?

BTW, I did manage to verify that the 532 was the original engine on this aircraft in 1989.

AvidDrawing.jpg

Edited by TSoftware

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Posted (edited)

I'm a Kitfox builder - This looks like a (VERY?) short wing version to me - I thought that the full Avid wings were about 29' span, about 3' shorter than Kitfox, and Speedwings should be about 3' shorter than full Avid, about 26'?

For W/B - the plane has to be leveled with a level either under the cabin floor (both ways) or from door sills.  Front of wing is datum point and all measurements are taken from that by dropping a line to the floor and marking to center of axles.  There may be some charts in the manuals.  The Avid guys can give you better info.  Congrats,  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Understand, my question about weight and balance was more about the gross weight.  I believe that the Model A had a gross of around 850, Model Bs varied between 911 and 950 and so on.

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Posted

The avid is leveled for W & B with a 4' level under the right wing on the rib just inside of the lift strut.  Funny, the picture shows an Avid A model door.  Not a B.  Sounds like you have a mixture of different parts and pieces.  If it's 36" wide though, (at the top back of the seat) the fuselage is an A.  Never heard of speedwings with undercambered ribs, they are supposed to be flat bottomed. Avid STOL and Heavy Hauler wings are supposed to be 29' 10 1/2" wingspan.  Who knows, maybe the guy balled it up, and replaced the original C model fuselage with an A model.  Stranger things have happened.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

Understand, my question about weight and balance was more about the gross weight.  I believe that the Model A had a gross of around 850, Model Bs varied between 911 and 950 and so on.

There is no "Gross Weight" for Experimentals.  The kit maker can "advertise" a GW for each model as a guide, but the builder "manufacturer" lists in Phase 1 the highest weight that he has flown the plane.  With those VERY short wings, I think I would be very conservative with weight.  My 2c worth - Now you need to be talking to "real" Avid guys.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Edmo, understand, but with this aircraft....no logs...no original builder gross...so I am trying to figure out what to start with....and HOPEFULLY, manufactures actually did the G testing for the gross weight.

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Posted (edited)

Struts started out at 3/4" diameter and (I think) .035 wall - As crossover tubes and fuselages got stronger, struts were increased to 7/8" (.049 wall?) and we have a showing in Files and Forms on that test.  Wings didn't change until the HH version when they went to .083 wall spars from .065 and started putting ribs on 12" centers instead of 18".  Note:  Kitfox struts went to 1"diameter and .049 wall and still use the .065 wall spars and 18" rib spacing for 1550 GW.

There was a rumor that Dean Wilson flew the early Avid at 1500 GW, but I would not make any bets on the truth of that, but there has never been a documented wing failure on the Avids or Kitfoxes.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Jim,

The closest that I get to this wing is the Avid Flyer Aerobat, which was a C model, but then the ribs should have been at 12 inches.  The aerobat wing was supposed to be undercambered, like the Heavy hauler, has a 125mph VNE, 110 cruise and a 23'11.5" wing.  It called for a 65" prop, 18 gal fuel capacity (I didn't mention that I have two fuel tanks, a header tank and one behind the seat (I presumed that it was after market).  I got the aerobat undercambered information from the wikia and the test of the specs from a 1989 flyer that I got with the plane.

The gross aerobatic was 850, otherwise the gross was 911.

Sounds awfully close to what I have.  Unfortunately it doesn't list the cabin width.

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