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Hope to pick up a project next week

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Posted (edited)

I made an offer of $4k dollars on the Raven/kitfox clone advertised on Barnstormers. It belongs to an EAA chapter so it has to be approved by their board. The fella I have been in communication with seems to think it will fly. Its an interesting mix of stuff. The engine is a 582 with pull start, gray head, and has dual ignition. The tanks that come with it are aluminum, theres two of them. The wings are built and they have the aluminum doublers installed at the hinge points for the controls. The gear is there including a new Matco tailwheel. Its pretty short on paper work or any history, he did tell me there is a roll of drawings that come with it. I am hoping this will be a rewarding project, finishing the build, licensing, and test flying when finished. I have never built an airplane. I have never worked with fabric other than when I got my A&P.  I am going to try an chronicle my build here hope I can do half as good a job as Tjay has. Mike

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Edited by ppilotmike
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Posted

What I see in the pictures, It looks like a fantastic start and I'm sure you can build as good as me, I'm nothing special, it Jim that's hard to beat,

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Posted

Hope it works out for you!  It is rewarding to take a project and turn it into a flying machine.  I don't know what Jim TJay is talking about, it's not me.  :-)  Don't worry about the fabric, get a manual and follow it and you will do just fine.  And one more thing.  Don't hesitate to ask questions here.  We will all be rooting for you and will help any way we can.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

One thing I would suggest, is that the crossover tubes that the wings attach to are very light and small - It would strengthen it a lot to replace those with larger, heavier tubes, or at least put another tube inside of them for strength, or split a tube and weld the two halves over the outside of those tubes.  Bracing on the ends of them like someone posted would also be a good idea.

From what I see, if the bottom engine mount is in the bottom center of the "V" tubes in the front end, then it takes a Kitfox mount with the engine "plugs-up".  Looks just like the fuselage I have hanging in my shop.   Congrats and post lots of photos. 

BTW:  Although Jim Chuk wont use the title, he is the "Pro" builder.  All of us "Amateurs" depend on his advice.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

More pictures.

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Posted (edited)

Looks like lots of work has been already done - just a matter of putting it together and covering / painting.  Leak check those tanks, and maybe sealing with Caswell tank sealer would be a good idea, before you put them into the wings - that was a failure point and why they went to fiberglass tanks.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Ed,  I think you were drinking from the same bottle as TJay.  :-)  (must have been a big one ;-)  As far as the tanks go, I think someone had some fiberglass ones for sale just recently.  I would take those over the aluminum ones if it was me.  Aluminum tanks in Avid style wings had a habit of developing cracks.  Also, yours look like 6 gallon ones, going with the larger fiberglass ones would give more capacity as well.  Another thing on that topic to find out about is are the ribs Kitfox or Avid.  Even though both had an undercamber early on, (Kitfox 4 and later are different) the Avid and Kitfox ribs are not the same.  so a Kitfox tank will not fit good in an Avid wing and vise versa.  On a different topic, but still relating to your project, I remembered today about a guy I talked to in Wisconsin a year or so ago.  He had bought a Raven and it had some broken weld joints after it was trailered to him.  It turned out that the tubing had been brazed together.  Leni is the welding expert around here, and while I have brazed some thin steel together, and even some stainless steel, and both of them held, I would never have thought to try it on an aircraft fuselage.   I would look at the tubing joints first off.  Any way keep us informed.  JImChuk

PS.  TJay and Ed.  dump that bottle out! ;-)

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Posted (edited)

Brazed?  not cool.  If they were welded using oxy acetylene and actual welding wire (er70S or something of that sort) then the joints are welded just like the original pipers and dozens of other early plane manufactures were welded.  Were the welds a golden or brass color?

 

Edited by akflyer

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Posted (edited)

It's a lot easier to say, "Ask Jim Chuk", than to try to act like I know something!  Ha!  I think I would buy one of the new "Ethenol Resistant" tanks from Kitfox instead of trying to save a few bucks by using an older FG tank, although I have one I would sell.  Those non-hanger rib ends look like some that I have.  Kitfox undercambered tanks should fit.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Leni, I never saw the plane that was brazed together.  I talked to the guy and he said it was brazed.  As in brass color if I remember right.  :-)  Ed,  just looking at the ribs without the tails again, they kind of don't look like Avid or Kitfox ribs to me.    Wonder how the trailing edge is made on them.  On the Avid, the bottom cap strip reaches all the way to the top cap strip, on the Kitfox, the bottom cap strip stops about 2" short of there but it's aimed at the same point.  If this doesn't make sense the way I'm saying it, I can get some pics of my Kitfox ribs, here is a pic or one of the rib tails I made for the Avid wings.  JImChuk

 

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Edited by 1avidflyer

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Posted (edited)

Jim,  You are correct on the ribs - I have some of the steeper rear bottom angled Raven ribs.  I modified some of them to match the old Kitfox ribs by reworking the bottom part and matched them in a Kitfox wing with other Kitfox ribs.  A couple of things have me concerned about his ribs - I cant tell if the uprights in the ribs are glued or how attached to the top and bottom parts - mine were routed out of one solid piece - and #2, mine had the big cutout near the tail, like his, which I thought would weaken the rib, so I made some inserts to put in the holes and chamfered the edges on them and the rib cutout and glued them in before adding the aluminum sandwich to them.    The trailing edge on the Raven ribs just attached to the top capstrip.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Ed,  I think you were drinking from the same bottle as TJay.  :-)  (must have been a big one ;-)  As far as the tanks go, I think someone had some fiberglass ones for sale just recently.  I would take those over the aluminum ones if it was me.  Aluminum tanks in Avid style wings had a habit of developing cracks.  Also, yours look like 6 gallon ones, going with the larger fiberglass ones would give more capacity as well.  Another thing on that topic to find out about is are the ribs Kitfox or Avid.  Even though both had an undercamber early on, (Kitfox 4 and later are different) the Avid and Kitfox ribs are not the same.  so a Kitfox tank will not fit good in an Avid wing and vise versa.  On a different topic, but still relating to your project, I remembered today about a guy I talked to in Wisconsin a year or so ago.  He had bought a Raven and it had some broken weld joints after it was trailered to him.  It turned out that the tubing had been brazed together.  Leni is the welding expert around here, and while I have brazed some thin steel together, and even some stainless steel, and both of them held, I would never have thought to try it on an aircraft fuselage.   I would look at the tubing joints first off.  Any way keep us informed.  JImChuk

PS.  TJay and Ed.  dump that bottle out! ;-)

I still have the 2 fiberglass 9 gallon tanks for sale.  I've had offers from other forums and went as far as boxing them up for the guy and he never bought them .

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Posted (edited)

Without some very good drawings and dimensions, and maybe some wing modifications, it is hard for me to imagine that those tanks would work in an Avid or Kitfox wing.   What plane were they for?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I have no idea but we are dealing with experimental aircraft doesn't mean they have to go in the wing. 

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Posted

Well the board did not except my offer last night. I left it open and told them that I was also looking at another project. A little bummed but all things happen for a reason. Mike

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Well the board did not except my offer last night. I left it open and told them that I was also looking at another project. A little bummed but all things happen for a reason. Mike

The last time I checked Ebay there was one ready to fly at a bid of $7600 - Donno location.   EDMO

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Posted

That A model Avid is in Mooresburg Tn.  JImChuk

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Well the board did not except my offer last night. I left it open and told them that I was also looking at another project. A little bummed but all things happen for a reason. Mike

I know where a Rans s6 is for sale. Fuselage is done no engine or avionics but has all the stuff to build the wings etc and a bunch of other stuff with it . 

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Well the board did not except my offer last night. I left it open and told them that I was also looking at another project. A little bummed but all things happen for a reason. Mike

I know where a Rans s6 is for sale. Fuselage is done no engine or avionics but has all the stuff to build the wings etc and a bunch of other stuff with it . 

I like the S6 - Wish I had bought one years ago.   EDMO

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Posted (edited)

It's owned by a older gentlemen and just wants someone to enjoy it . I might even pick it up myself. He gave me a personal price that's hard to pass up . They're pretty much like an avid just a little different. There's also a rv6 around me going for a steal along with a couple hi max planes . I need to get rich so I can buy these and build them up .

Edited by chopndrag

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Posted

The RANS seats are the most comfortable I have ever sat in.  Also, they don't have flaperons.  I would say, "Go for it"!  EDMO

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Posted

I kind of have my heart set on an Avid or Kitfox. Thanks for keeping me in mind, I am sure something will happen sometime this year. Mike

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Posted

Wohoo!! Well chapter 431 has decided to take my offer!!! Checks in the mail, now the fun part starts. I wonder how big of a trailer I need to drag this home with? I have entertained the idea of modding my little 5x8 for the job. Mike

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