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Anyone ever use a sea doo engine?

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Posted

Hi all,  was talking to a guy today, and he mentioned that he could get a near new 90 HP 4stroke engine from a Sea Doo fairly cheap.  He asked me my opinion.  Told him I would ask on here as I have no experience in that direction.  I'm guessing there's a reason I haven't heard of any being used.  Comments?  JImChuk

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Posted

Those are Rotax engines, but are generally V-Twins, single ignition. I would agree there is probably a reason, since you can buy an entire Sea Doo for about 1/2 the price of a 90hp Rotax airplane engine.

Mark

 

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Posted

Those engine should be inline twins similar to the 582 or 618 series. They pose many challenges to convert them for aircraft use. For starters unless it is a newer 4 stroke seadoo they do not have internal water pumps, they instead use the pulpulsion jet to pump lake water through the cooling system. They do not have mounting provisions for a gearbox so a adapter arrangement would have to be made. The cost of trying to convert would far exceed the cost of just buying a 618 set up. I converted a HONDA aquatrax engine for use in a Long EZ aircraft that worked really well but it was a lot of work. The out come was not a 90 horse 2 stroke though. Its was a 120 horse inline 4 cyl. 4 stroke that  was turbo normalized. I could develop 120 hp past 18,000ft.

hondalongez.jpg

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Posted

I'm sorry I miss read the original posting about this being a 4 stroke engine. This must be from a seadoo spark. I am unfamiliar with those engines. they may have a internal water pump but mounting a gearbox may be a choir. But if it is a good engine it just takes 1 person to do the homework then we can all benefit. lets us know what you find.

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Posted (edited)

Found this in Boating Magazine. Looks like the engine was first used in a snowmobile, so I'm assuming it's a closed loop cooling system that includes a water pump.

Rotax 900 ACE HO

TECHNICAL DETAILS - ACE (Advanced Combustion Efficiency)

4-Stroke - NUMBER OF CYLINDERS: 3

PERFORMANCE:  66,19 kW / 90 HP

PERFORMANCE/ RPM: 66,19 kW @ 8000 rpm

ENGINE TORQUE/ RPM: 84,3 Nm @ 6500 rpm

WEIGHT (KG): 56,6 ~124lbs

TRANSMISSION: None

Introduced last year on a snowmobile, the Rotax 900 ACE that powers the Spark is a compact three-cylinder with dual overhead cams that pumps out 60 horsepower in its base configuration. An optional High Output (HO) version bumps that figure to 90. Sea-Doo also proclaims the ACE to be arguably the most fuel-efficient engine in the PWC market. Based on what the company presents as an average duty cycle, the 60 hp ACE burns only 1.94 gallons per hour, and the 90 hp only 2.4 gph. 

Spark.jpg

Edited by RobS
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Posted

Ran across this u tube video, of course it's an advertisement, but I found it interesting and somewhat informative.   Seems like the different modes of power would be of benefit in a plane.  Take off at highest power, and cruise setting at most efficient power setting.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

I was watching another video about the engines and they mentioned a 3 cyl. 1200 engine?  Is that a 4-stroke too? 

No mention of HP or rpms.   ???   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Here it is Ed.  JImChuk

PS  just did some more looking around for info on this 1200 CC Rotax engine, and found this.  Wonder how much Rotax makes on our 912 series of engines when the entire snowmobile with their 1200 CC engine costs less than $12000 

At US$11,849 the 2016 Ski-Doo MXZ TNT 1200 4-TEC offers good value as its provides the latest technology, including a learning key that can be programmed to dumb down performance for new riders, and famous MXZ on-trail handling prowess. The sled is very comfortable to ride, offers aggressive handling when you want it, or cruise mode when you don’t. With its newly revitalized four-stroke engine, the TNT 1200 gives you a durable, quiet and very fuel efficient snowmobile that can be counted on for many seasons to come.

 

https://www.rotax.com/en/products/rotax-powertrains/details/rotax-1200-4-tec.html

Edited by 1avidflyer
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Posted

Re: SnoGo vs Plane engine prices:  I am sure that someday there will be an ancient clay or stone tablet found that says:  "If mere mortals want to fly with the Angels, then they must pay a higher price!"   ;<)   EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Everyone loves to hate Rotax.  Take a moment and think of how much liability insurance for an AIRCRAFT engine manufacturer costs!  The answer:  A snowmobile manufacturer needs to pay a tiny fraction of the amount.  Do you think that maybe this is a component in what parts and complete engines cost?  Every wonder why we have Bing instead of Mikuni carburetors on these engines?  Lawyers and Liability costs!

Price a brand new Continental O200 or Lycoming O233 lately?  All that money and you still get 1930's technology.

Edited by Av8r3400
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Posted (edited)

Everyone loves to hate Rotax.  Take a moment and think of how much liability insurance for an AIRCRAFT engine manufacturer costs!  The answer:  A snowmobile manufacturer needs to pay a tiny fraction of the amount.  Do you think that maybe this is a component in what parts and complete engines cost?  Every wonder why we have Bing instead of Mikuni carburetors on these engines?  Lawyers and Liability costs!

Price a brand new Continental O200 or Lycoming O233 lately?  All that money and you still get 1930's technology.

Lycosauris and Contisauris were "Certified Aircraft engines" back in those days, and that "blessing" from the CAA costs a lot.  I'm not saying that they are worth what they charge today.   Now, with everything being "Experimental", you are the builder and you are on your own if your engine fails - And, you don't have enough money to beat Rotax attorneys, or even get to court!   So, why not use the cheaper Rotax or any other engine that suits your needs.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

You do have a point Larry, but deep down inside I still think they are robbing us blind!  :-)  Also, I do wonder how hard it would be to sue Rotax from the US.  If they were an American company then all bets are off and the lawyers will come running I'm sure.  Not sure they live by the same laws we do though.  In a way, I think it all goes back to supply and demand. They have a very good product, and very little competition.  They will take whatever the market will bare.  JImChuk

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Posted

I have ski doo sleds with the 2cyl 600 ace (60hp), 3 cyl 900 ace (90hp), and 3 cyl 1200 (135 hp)4 strokes.

Great motors in sleds, all highly reliable, fuel effecient, quiet, and "computerized".

IMO the best candidate for aircraft would be a turbo version (aftermarket) of the 2cyl 600 ACE (120HP).  It comes in as the most compact and lightweight with best power to weight ratio.

https://www.rotax.com/en/products/rotax-powertrains/details/rotax-600-ace.html

http://mcxpressturbos.com/turbo-kits/snowmobile/ski-doo/ace-600/

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Posted

The exhaust systems on water crafts are very heavy, So it would need a total redesign.  Each one would be super easy to adapt a gear box too, Just unbolt the jet pump and bolt on a gear box adapter plate.  As far as reliability I think they would be great. Every jet ski I have ever seen is either at idle or  wide open throttle all day long.

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Posted

Exhausts on 4-stroke is no-brainer - For 2-smokes, it is critical design.  SnoGos down here are as scarce as hen's teeth - SeaDoos all over the area.  EDMO

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Posted

Lots of good candidates, snow and water sleds.

It's all about the adapter plate and gearbox / clutch.

Wish the answer to that was simpler!

Thanks to Teal we have a great option for the Yamaha Genesis!

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Posted

The one thing I noticed about the SeaDoo ACE engines is that they make HP at, say, 7000, and Genesis screams at 10K or so.  ???   EDMO

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Posted

What year did they start using the ACE 4-stroke engines - especially the 900 and 1200?   EDMO

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Posted

I found an article from March 2013 talking about a review of the 900 ACE engine.  Maybe older than that, I'm not sure.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

I found an article from March 2013 talking about a review of the 900 ACE engine.  Maybe older than that, I'm not sure.  JImChuk

Thanks Jim.  There are 4 Seadoos in wife's family - guess I will start raising hoods.  ;<)  I think that is "Bonnets" for you UK guys?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

What year did they start using the ACE 4-stroke engines - especially the 900 and 1200?   EDMO

Rotax makes a 600 and 900 Ace engine.  The 1200 is called a 4-Tec.  The 4-Tec is an older technology engine than the Aces.

The 600 came out in '14 and the 900 in '15.  The 1200 has been in production since 2009.

 

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Posted

Thanks Larry.  I probably wont ever get one unless one of the SeaDoos gets trashed.   EDMO

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Posted

Thanks Larry.  I probably wont ever get one unless one of the SeaDoos gets trashed.   EDMO

That should happen about every 5 or 10 minutes on those Missouri lakes......

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