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People selling "fat ultralights" with no paperwork

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Posted (edited)

This doesn't really apply to Avids but I know many of you came from other backgrounds and others lighter planes so here we go.

As many of you know there was a point after years of getting away with it that the FAA put their foot down and said no more FAT ultralights were allowed. Many single seat challengers, Kolbs, Drifters, T-birds, Weedhoppers, 2 place Powered parachutes etc fell into this category. While they looked like ultralights they did not meet Part 103 requirements. I had one for almost 10 years that fit this category. Back in the day (don't laugh Ed!) all you needed was a placard that said for instructional use only and you could fly a two place all day long with no issues.

As of late I've seen several of these types planes for sale with no paperwork and they are being advertised as Ultralights which is NOT the case. If they weren't registered by Jan 31, 2008 they became paperweights. It frustrates me when someone misrepresents what they have to sell. To someone who doesn't know the difference they think they are getting a great deal on a flying machine. Some never know the difference and go fly, some fly em knowing but fly off their private property in the sticks and don't care and yet others find out later after investing time and money getting these things that been sitting around for years flying only to find out they have an illegal machine. When I did my repairmans course we had several people in the class in this boat and never knew it.

On one hand I feel bad knowing that this could ruin a person who is trying to get into the sport but on the other I feel people need to do their homework before buying a plane that's been sitting for years and just needs "cleaned up" or is "pretty much ready to fly"

Thoughts?

Edited by C5Engineer

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Posted (edited)

You make a very valid point. I have a friend who just went thru this with a Drifter. It had gained so much weight after it was built it was almost twice the legal limit. He did't really care because he only flew off of his own property. He recently knowingly sold it to an unwitting buyer on fleabay. I could never do something like that  but we all have different  moral values. The LSA market is almost as bad. I know of several people operating Luscombe 8A's that have been upgraded to E standards as if they were still in the LSA category.  Mike 

Edited by ppilotmike

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Posted (edited)

But... ultimately it is the pilots (buyers) responsibility to meet the FAR's, no one elses (buyer beware).  Part of the problem is legally no training required.  With no training, cognizance of the FARs can be in doubt (a broken system or what... not designed to protect the pilot in several facets).  254 lbs is dang hard to meet any way you slice it.

What frustrates me even more is that the FAA doesn't seem to care much (until they do... when in their own best interest - as in the gyro copter flight to the white house a few years ago).

We have had a few (two place) unregistered light sport planes (old fat ultralights) have accidents in this area recently, and the FAA didn't even want to look at them, writing them off as "ultralights".  In the newspapers you can clearly see larger 2 seat birds and no N numbers.

 

Edited by LSaupe

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Posted

Joey you make a very valid point.  I ran into a perfect example of this just in the last couple of weeks.  A non-pilot selling an overweight Aventura UL converted into an HP sold his plane to another non-pilot.  I went to look at the plane just a day or so before it sold to the second non-pilot.  The first owner figured out how to fly and land the plane but had no formal training.  While discussing the plane I asked him how it stalled.  He was puzzled and didn't seem to know what I was asking him.  Yet he had been flying the plane!  I decided to walk away.  It was a nice plane but I just wasn't 'feeling' it.

I'm be willing to bet this guy told the next non-pilot he sold it to something along the lines of "I figured it out, its easy to fly..."  Because the next week I saw this plane in the news, upside down in a local lake.  The new owner decided to fast taxi on the lake on a day with winds 15G20+ .  Fortunately no one was hurt other then in the wallet.

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Posted

Joey you make a very valid point.  I ran into a perfect example of this just in the last couple of weeks.  A non-pilot selling an overweight Aventura UL converted into an HP sold his plane to another non-pilot.  I went to look at the plane just a day or so before it sold to the second non-pilot.  The first owner figured out how to fly and land the plane but had no formal training.  While discussing the plane I asked him how it stalled.  He was puzzled and didn't seem to know what I was asking him.  Yet he had been flying the plane!  I decided to walk away.  It was a nice plane but I just wasn't 'feeling' it.

I'm be willing to bet this guy told the next non-pilot he sold it to something along the lines of "I figured it out, its easy to fly..."  Because the next week I saw this plane in the news, upside down in a local lake.  The new owner decided to fast taxi on the lake on a day with winds 15G20+ .  Fortunately no one was hurt other then in the wallet.

I read about that in the local news . 

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