[C5Engineer]

I spent some time on Matco's website today and got myself thoroughly confused. Since I'm starting from scratch I was hoping maybe you guys could help out. I want to go with bigger tires down the road and only want to have to do this once. I'm thinking I would need 6" wheels with at least double puck calipers. Which master cylinders? Any idea what a stock axle size is? The other big thing is I'm going to have to modify my pedals to accept the master cylinders. I've read there are mods for this to to get more mechanical advantage and thus better breaking. Wonder if Brett has the rudder pedal assemblies and wheels on hand. Any parts lists anyone has would be great so I can start pricing it out. I got a nice over escrow check from the bank today because we bought a house this year that I think would just about cover it...."ya honey we'll use it for home improvements... "

[84KF]

I know the topic is MATCO, but here are some pics of my Clevelands 6.00 - 6, about 95 hrs TT since new. Probably won't help, but what the heck...

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[Av8r3400]

Brett has everything you need for the conversion. I think he has at least a couple sets of brakes/wheels on the shelf and I know he has the rudder peddles, I was looking at them today.

I will be there tomorrow and I'll get the details for you.

Call you tomorrow evening?


(Your axles are 3/4" diameter.)

This post has been edited by Av8r3400: 03 February 2010 - 03:49 AM

[Av8r3400]

84KF, on 02 February 2010 - 07:52 PM, said:

I know the topic is MATCO, but here are some pics of my Clevelands 6.00 - 6, about 95 hrs TT since new. Probably won't help, but what the heck...

Probably the benchmark for good brakes on a small plane...

Was there a reason you didn't go with the Grove brakes?

[84KF]

"...Was there a reason you didn't go with the Grove brakes? "

I aquired the plane from the widow of the builder..... and they were already installed.

But the Cleveland wheels and brakes, and Maule tailwheel setup made the decision to buy easier. I like the idea of having "real" airplane parts as much as possible. (I'm still getting used to owning and flying an aircraft held together with "pop rivits".)

[C5Engineer]

I'm currently running the 8.00X6 Carlisle Tires. I found a site with these 21X12-8 NK N800 SLICK TREAD 2 PLY Made by Nankang for like 33" a piece. Sounds like a lot of guys are running them. Is going to a 8" wheel a pain for finding brake parts?

[Bandit]

Matco sells 8" wheels and brakes. I had mine custom made from ATV wheels.

[C5Engineer]

Bandit, on 06 February 2010 - 08:04 PM, said:

Matco sells 8" wheels and brakes. I had mine custom made from ATV wheels.

Saw that..too bad they are over $300 a wheel!! Do you have any pics or specs on your wheels? I know a few machinist that could prob do something like this for me. I'm curious what brand of wheels you used and what you used for a rotor and caliper.

[Av8r3400]

Joey-- ( I got your text. Sorry I didn't reply, yet. )

The Kitfoxes use a 8" aluminum ATV wheel with tabs welded on the back that mount the brake disc. The caliper reaches from the ID to the OD (backwards from most applications). I'm headed over to the airport today and will send you a pic of the setup. I have my gear all reassembled with the new prototype "ski axles" installed.

Brett still supplies the 6" setup for Avids, but we were talking about looking for a more reasonably priced option of going with an 8" wheel. At the time we still had one of my Kitfox wheels on the bench for ski fitting. So we were using that as a idea starter...

[C5Engineer]

Av8r3400, on 07 February 2010 - 06:38 AM, said:

Joey-- ( I got your text. Sorry I didn't reply, yet. )

The Kitfoxes use a 8" aluminum ATV wheel with tabs welded on the back that mount the brake disc. The caliper reaches from the ID to the OD (backwards from most applications). I'm headed over to the airport today and will send you a pic of the setup. I have my gear all reassembled with the new prototype "ski axles" installed.

Brett still supplies the 6" setup for Avids, but we were talking about looking for a more reasonably priced option of going with an 8" wheel. At the time we still had one of my Kitfox wheels on the bench for ski fitting. So we were using that as a idea starter...

Thanks. Can you confirm whether or not he has all the rudder pedal pieces. Looks like there is more to it than just the toe piece.

[Av8r3400]

C5Engineer, on 08 February 2010 - 04:46 PM, said:

Thanks. Can you confirm whether or not he has all the rudder pedal pieces. Looks like there is more to it than just the toe piece.

Yes he has the complete rudder peddle assemblies (W/ mounts for Matco brake parts) for your Avid.

We were talking today a bit about the wheel situation. I gave him your cell # and he will probably contact you in regard to this, soon. For the record, Kitfox doesn't even support the 8" ATV style wheels any more. Deb McBean (I emailed her for price, etc.) told me to use the 8" Matco wheel. (Yikes $$$!)

I may look into what it would take to produce these old Kitfox style wheels again as an option... Stand by.

[akflyer]

Av8r3400, on 08 February 2010 - 06:58 PM, said:

Yes he has the complete rudder peddle assemblies (W/ mounts for Matco brake parts) for your Avid.

We were talking today a bit about the wheel situation. I gave him your cell # and he will probably contact you in regard to this, soon. For the record, Kitfox doesn't even support the 8" ATV style wheels any more. Deb McBean (I emailed her for price, etc.) told me to use the 8" Matco wheel. (Yikes $!)

I may look into what it would take to produce these old Kitfox style wheels again as an option... Stand by.

it is easy enough to get a set of Douglas welded ATV wheels in 8". They will probably have to be drilled to meet the bolt pattern. Then you have to rustle up a set of hubs from some old kitfox... hmm... I may have an extra set.. then a set of rotors.. hmm.. may have a set of those too. Then you weld lugs inside the wheel for the rotors to bolt to. That is not a big issue as akflyerbob had a set made. Then you get the matco calipers and masters, a little plumbing and you be ready to stop your plane much better than it will now! I would look into the re-inforced toe brakes that a guy on the yahoo group had been selling. I think Jackak has a set of the pedals that I looked at. Mine and wagonmasters both flex a bit too much when you really try to stand on them.

[C5Engineer]

Thanks guys! I also saw some traffic a while back where someone changed the geometry of the tabs on their rudder pedals and was able to get way better braking out of the single puck brakes. It seems with the stock set up the mechanical advantage is not there to make the MC's work to their full potenial. I'll dig around and see what I can come up with with over there.

I flew around in the pattern and the local area after my wife dropped me off to go shopping yesterday. Got in a .7 and 5 landings. I'm getting pretty comfortable landing with power rather than elevator. It's a lot easier to grease it on by controlling sink rate with the engine rather than trying to flare it off. This is on pavement BTW. I tend to be a lot slower and plop it in a bit more when landing on rough stuff. Still makes you smile when you fly one on and the tires don't even chirp. I took a degree of pitch out of the prop yesterday because I had only been getting around 6150 on take off. I gets up to 6350 now and highest I saw was 6600 at 110mph after holding it WFO for a few minutes. I picked up about 200fpm in the climb and noticed only a very slight decrease in cruise speed. Less than 5 hours to go! My last test is to fill the tanks to the brim verify they are 14 gallons and then go fly it and see how it handles, and see how much leaks out. My most aft CG will occur in this config.

[jackak]

Joey,
The guy that I got the brake pedals from is Michael Schuetz, he goes by "westofthe3rd". His email address is lazysredangus@sasktel.net. He knows a lot about the avid brakes and might help you in working out your fix. He is able to turn down the shaft on the master cylinder if needed to get the proper fit. I'm not sure of his current prices, but the work he does is top notch.

Jack

[C5Engineer]

Thanks a ton for the info Jack. I sent him an email. I also talked to Brett today on the phone and he has all the parts too. Sounds like they are working on an 8" wheel set up.

[C5Engineer]

I get a lot of parts for my dirt bike from Rocky Mt ATV. I did a quick search and found these bad boys.



25X8" slick for $80 a piece. I think 21" would be plenty for what I want to do.

I found the 21X8 Nankang slicks here

http://www.atvtires....ail.asp?gn=N800

[Av8r3400]

Though mine have tread on them, the size of 20x7x8 seems to be really good for my application of grass runways and river sandbars.

Here's the pic of my brake I promised...

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[Bandit]

Got my 7" Matco tailwheel today. Hope to get it on this weekend. Sure would like to try those 25 X 8 slicks. I wonder how much weight difference there is from the King Fox?

This post has been edited by Bandit: 10 February 2010 - 03:02 AM

[C5Engineer]

Bandit, on 09 February 2010 - 07:01 PM, said:

Got my 7" Matco tailwheel today. Hope to get it on this weekend. Sure would like to try those 25 X 8 slicks. I wonder how much weight difference there is from the King Fox?

They are the same tires only 4" bigger. Doubt there is much weight difference. These are still ATV tires. I tried to install my 7" Matco TW this weekend but I still could not even get close to releasing it so I ordered their other arms that release at 25 degrees.

[Av8r3400]

C5Engineer, on 09 February 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

They are the same tires only 4" bigger. Doubt there is much weight difference. These are still ATV tires. I tried to install my 7" Matco TW this weekend but I still could not even get close to releasing it so I ordered their other arms that release at 25 degrees.

Joey,

How does the width of the Matco tailwheel arms compare to your rudder horn?

I dug for about a half an hour for that 25" tire and never found it. What size wheel does that one take?