Avid amphibious floats ?


23 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Found a set for sale the owner is not sure who made them. 

 We're they any good?

any idea of weight 

 

thanks in advance 

 

 

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Edited by THE MACHINIST

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Posted

They are the oem Avid straight floats modified for amphib gear. I have the info on the guy out west who was making and selling the amphib gear somewhere in my files. I read good things about the gear design and quality from those who used it, however, I have no personal experience with the conversion. Shame Scott didn't get the chance to set up and use these.

The following quote is from Paul Seehafer who has a LOT of Avid float experience.

I am familiar with those avid amphibs. They are in fact Avid floats. I flew that float, although not an amphib, on an early lightweight (400 lb ew) Avid A model, and then later on a 600 lb ew Mk 4 Avid. The floats have good buoyancy, I would guess around 1200 lbs. So they would work well on early, lighter Kitfox models, up to a model 4-1200 imho. The downside of these floats is that they are not as strong structurally as most others, so if you put them on a kitfox with say more than 550 lbs ew on wheels, be careful not to pound them too hard in rough water, etc.

I also had a set of Avid amphibs just like yours, but sold them before I ever flew them. The gear is pretty well designed, but if I recall they are around 260 lbs empty weight, which is a bit heavy for a small float. But, it will still work just fine on the right airplane.

----------------------

I have well over a thousand hours flying those Avid floats. In my opinion they are one of the easiest floats to fly, and have a tremendous amount of forward buoyancy, making them a very safe float for a low time seaplane pilot. And even though it was an inexpensive float, it worked very well.

The float will work well on any Avid or Kitfox up to an empty weight of about 625 lbs. But if you put them on a heavier aircraft they will start running out of buoyancy at gross weights over 1200 lbs. Plus, being that these floats were designed for 400 lb Avid Flyers, when used on heavier aircraft you will need to remember to be gentle with them. They are constructed of an exterior fibreglass shell with a foam filled interior, which is nowhere near as strong as a float built with modern composite techniques that sandwich foam between layers of fibreglass.

This is from JimChuk who had a set of the Avid straight floats.

...mine are 12' 6" long, 18" at the widest, and 18" at the highest. I grabbed a bathroom scale and tried to get weights on the floats. One came in at 70 lb, the other was 66. I did have 2 2X4 X 2 1/2' boards laying on the scale to keep the floats in place, just guessing, that would be about 4 lbs. At that rate, 66 lbs on one, and 62 lbs on the other. I got to thinking afterwards, and wondered if I had the floats centered on the scale. Don't know if that would make a difference or not. Take care, Jim Chuk

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Posted

Thank you very much for taking time to put that info together for me!

Did they have water rudders?

Sounds pretty positive overall do you think 2k is a decent price if they are all there or...........?

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Posted

They should have water rudders.  I have the floats Jim Chuk had.  One of my projects is to lay them out on the hangar floor and measure, take pictures and make some simple drawings to put here.  But that probably isn't going to happen very soon.

I'd say 2k is a decent price if they are all there and not damaged.  I new set of Lotus Floats amphibs would be 8-10k.

 

Mark

 

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Posted

Thanks mark I appreciate it

 

 

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Posted

 If I remember right they were designed by Robbie Holland or or something like that in Montana ,

 I have a set, somewhere, Of drawings  to convert avid floats to amp, used bd5 nose wheels.

I could dig them up and bring him to Oshkosh if somebody wants to make a copy of them

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Posted

If you can find them I'll scan them in and post them here.  I'm planning to be at Oshkosh all week this year.

Mark

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Posted (edited)

Snaps, if you bring a set of drawings for me I'll pick them up at the SPB. And get after Jerry again on the other stuff if you think about it, maybe he can just bring that to OSH too. Thnx

 

[edit] I took pics of the exploded drawings, parts list and install instructions and posted them in a thread titled 'Avid Amphib Gear Info' in the Files and Forms forum. Thanks Snaps!

Edited by dholly

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Posted

Still deliberating on these if they could be used as a float instead of an amphibian two people could still fly

 

as an amphibian unless there was some sort of upgross option it would relegate my plane to pilot only

 

my c model weighs 543 with a gross of 1085

 

i would appreciate any more thoughts

 

thanks

 

jamie

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Posted

Jamie, the quotes I posted above from Paul Seehafer are the best first hand info from the most experienced Avid float guy you are likely to get. There just weren't that many sets of the Avid floats in regular use. One issue, as Paul noted, is they are rather fragile in comparison to modern composite floats and tended to crack. Once water infiltrated the foam it was very hard to dry out. If you are looking at a set of the early Avid floats, I recommend you weigh each. An unusually heavy float would suggest it is/was waterlogged.

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Posted

The guy told me the floats alone weigh 42 lbs not counting amphibious conversion. 

does that seem normal?

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Posted

JimChuk gave his weight guesstimate above.

42lbs each with all amphib-related mechanism and parts removed? I guess you would then have to subtract for the float material removed to make the main and nose gear wells, but then add back the ply bulkhead material, f/g and epoxy weight to arrive at a net figure for any [possible] weight reduction. Not sure an 18lbs net reduction per float is plausible, why not ask him for some video confirmation?

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Posted

 He is saying 42 pounds each without the amphibious mechanism installed. 

 So I'm not sure what the amphibious mechanism Ways but my thought is it's going to make it way more then would be usable for anyone but a single pilot 

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Posted

Not knowing what model plane, empty weight, pilot size, mission etc., I can't help you any further. If you are truly interested and want to know for sure, stop guessing and just ask the seller for detailed info and some definitive proof. If he wants to sell them, he will weigh the floats with and without amphib gear and send corroborating video or photos. You can think about it all you want but anything less will never be more than simple speculation.

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Posted

My plane is a C model heavy hauler that weighs 543 empty 1085 gross I weigh 185 

 

Would like to be able to take my son who is 14 now and weighs 110 with me but I don't see that being feasible for very long if I used these as amphibs and not just regular floats   

waiting to hear back from the guy on more accurate total weights

 

thanks again 

 

jamie 

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Posted

At one time I had an Avid C model that came with a set of the Avid floats and had the same concerns as you. I was able to call the factory with the question on max weight when the floats were installed, and was told that when the floats were installed on the aircraft you got a gross weight increase of 100 lb.s.  I guess the float structure provides strength to the aircraft and/or the floats actually provide lift in flight. Interesting info.

Jackak 

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Posted

Thanks Jack

Very interesting info

 

Maule does a similar thing on some models. 

Wonder if that would apply only to water use or if that crosses over for land use on amphibs 

 

 

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Posted

Speaking of amphibians was number two today behind a 182 on amphibs.  You can really make short landing with those if you forget to lower the rubber before touching down on the tarmac.  Called the tower saying he had a flat but he must have been sick when he realized what had happened.  Pricey landing I would guess.  I can fell for him.:o

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Posted

Ouch 

 

thats a rough day for sure. 

A buddy just tipped his kitfox 7 over on floats and bent one float up and got it into the prop as well as bending a spar. 

Live and learn I guess or some days we just live. 

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Posted (edited)

Paul, That's better than landing wheels down on the water, though. 

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted

Sure is, just ask this guy.   JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

If you use these as straight floats, I assume you will need to fill and glass over the open main gear wells. Trying to remove the f/r ply bulkheads added in the conversion might prove difficult, obviously leaving as is means you'd be lugging all that unnecessary weight around as well. If you choose to remove the bulkheads, it may negatively impact structural integrity. Not sure you could pull that off and retain factory built quality and look.

Another option... if these Avid amphib floats are complete, previously built and operated but simply unassembled... perhaps you could buy them and reassemble, than find someone with a set of Avid straight floats interested in a swap.

Or keep looking? There were some Aerocet 1100 straight floats on Barnstormers recently. Better floats and a lot less less work I suspect.

Edited by dholly

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Posted

Man I guess so, he did get a crane to pick him up and lowered the wheels.  It was only his second landing after buying the plane.

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