Want to buy

[jared payne 40]

I am looking for a Kitfox 4 or similar in a avid flyer to buy. I am looking to finish my lightsport training in this plane. Located in the north west, seattle area. Jared 360-317-8996 jared@rockisland.com

[1avidflyer 1983]

The Kitfox 4 was a big change in quite a few different ways from the earlier Kitfoxes.  Not counting the Avid Magnum, which is in a class by it self, the last Avid Flyer model was a MK IV, and it is very similar to a Kitfox 3.   Early Kitfox 4 had a gross weight of 1050 lbs.  Later Kitfox 4 was 1200 lb.  JImChuk

[EDMO 1078]

I am looking for a Kitfox 4 or similar in a avid flyer to buy. I am looking to finish my lightsport training in this plane. Located in the north west, seattle area. Jared 360-317-8996 jared@rockisland.com

 

The Kitfox 4 was a big change in quite a few different ways from the earlier Kitfoxes.  Not counting the Avid Magnum, which is in a class by it self, the last Avid Flyer model was a MK IV, and it is very similar to a Kitfox 3.   Early Kitfox 4 had a gross weight of 1050 lbs.  Later Kitfox 4 was 1200 lb.  JImChuk

Keep checking Barnstormers.com/kitplanes or projects.    A Kitfox 2 was just on ebay and didn't sell for $11K.   EDMO

Edited 24 Jul 2017 by EDMO

[ppilotmike 24]

You just missed a real nice 4 that TJ was selling on the other forum, it was even in your neighborhood. He was asking 12K. Mike

[jared payne 40]

Just got back from Alaska ,and I am in the hunt.Thanks for keeping your eyes and ears open. 

[jared payne 40]

What do you guys think of the mk4 on creigs list Mosos lake wa?

[Ramos 62]

Can't find it. There is a KF 3 that popped up.

 

https://spokane.craigslist.org/for/d/seat-light-sport-airplane/6164759916.html

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

Looking at the shape of the doors on that Kitfox, I would say it's a Kitfox 1.  I have a Kitfox 1 that I would let go for half that much and be happy to get more than I expected to list it for.  JImChuk

[Ramos 62]

Looking at the shape of the doors on that Kitfox, I would say it's a Kitfox 1.  I have a Kitfox 1 that I would let go for half that much and be happy to get more than I expected to list it for.  JImChuk

I got no problem trusting your experienced eyes! Would like to have seen the ad for the Avid but, I sure couldn't find it.

[jared payne 40]

I just type in avid flyer. In Mosos lake WA

[1avidflyer 1983]

Is this the one you were wondering about?  It's in Lewiston Id. Actually a B model, not a MK IV like the add says.  Look at the last picture, FAA lists it's serial # as 244 which would make it a B model also.   JImChuk https://lewiston.craigslist.org/snw/6142607245.html

[Ramos 62]

This thread is turning into a pretty decent reminder for us less experienced individuals. As in: Know what you are looking at. Sellers, honestly or not, may not be accurately representing what they are selling.

Edited 26 Jul 2017 by Ramos
correction

[jared payne 40]

What do you guys think of the jabiru 2200 85hp engine? A Mk4 just popped up in ca.

[1avidflyer 1983]

I flew behind a Jabiru for over 400 hrs.  Take off and climb were about the same as a 582 in the same plane, but cruise was better.   Serial # from around 450 to 1850 or so had solid lifters and were better than later ones when they went to hydraulic lifters.  Not sure what serial # are when they straightened things out with the different cams and lifters.  Find out what the serial # is, and maybe I can do some research.  Or join the yahoo jabiru engine group.  JImChuk

[nlappos 413]

Jared Payne,

I have an Avid Mk IV and two years ago went through the same search that you have started. I learned a few things:

1) The max gross weight of every Avid and early Kit Foxes is a jump ball. Ask what it is, and also get the empty weight. The difference between empty weight and MGW is useful load, and that is what you are buying.

2)There is a serial number chart on this site that ID's every Avid as to type (A, B, C, Mark IV),  but of course the builders did what builders do and made them unique. That serial number chart is still a good guide.

3) For an Avid Mark IV with a Rotax 582, the empty weight is probably about 550 to 600 lbs. The MGW is 1150, so you have at least 550 to 600 lbs of useful load. That is terrific and beats most Cubs! And the going price for a Mark IV with  a low time 582 is much less than $20 k these days, some perhaps $14 or 15K. I zeroed in on that airplane and haven't regretted it for a second.

4) For an Avid with other engines, especially car engines, expect the empty weight to be far higher, so the useful load is crowded quite a bit. It is possible to find Avid Mk IVs that cannot carry two big-ish men. (This comment will get the most eye rolls I bet!)

5) Some folks insist that 2 strokes do not belong in airplanes, but lots of folks fly them every day and love them. Folks like me.

6) Inspecting an Avid is cake, the whole thing is simple and easily inspected. The controls are quality rods and bearings, and the fuselage is factory welded steel. They are strong as dirt, designed for about 4 G's so they are equal to most of Wichita's finest.

7) For some reason, some people price Kitfoxs at 50% or 100% higher than Avids. I don't know why, but it just makes it easier to grab an Avid off Barnstormers and smile! 

8) I have flown about 80 different flying machines, was a professional pilot for about 40 years, and I have as much fun in my Avid as in any other machine. It is honest, handles sweetly and can be flown with finger tips. Just use your feet on landing, because it will try to make you look bad on rollout if you don't know how to dance.

9) This group is great, there are a lot of smart folks who like to share, and they helped me a bunch. 

[EDMO 1078]

Unless you are thoroughly educated and comfortable operating 2-strokes, like myself, you are better off with a Jab or some other 4-stroke, IMO.  EDMO

[ppilotmike 24]

Hey Ed, any suggestions on where to get that education? I am always striving to learn more, even at my age ;-) Mike

[EDMO 1078]

Hey Ed, any suggestions on where to get that education? I am always striving to learn more, even at my age ;-) Mike

Mike,  The 2-smoke flyers on here have lots of info - suggest you search on General Hanger or post question on there.  I cant keep chainsaw running!  ;<)  EDMO

[tcj 150]

Hey Ed, any suggestions on where to get that education? I am always striving to learn more, even at my age ;-) Mike

 Mike, I worked in a ski Doo shop for a couple years and rode ski doos for 25 years before i bought my kitfox kit.  I knew the engines inside out.  The operation of a two stroke in an airplane is a lot different than in a snowmobile.  The best thing I did was order this Video. "Deep Inside your Rotax 2 Cycle Engine" http://www.homebuilthelp.com/New_Rotaxengine.htm 

The Mike Stratman articles are a must for two stroke flyers too. "The proper care and feeding of the Rotax Motor" http://www.cps-parts.com/catalog/rtxpages/articles.php A lot of the articles are on line at the link, but not all of them.  He wrote 62 articles that were in the back of all CPS catalogs until 2009 when he sold the CPS company.  If you can find one of the old catalogs with the articles in it, grab it.  CPS is now owned by Aircraft Spruce.

Edited 27 Jul 2017 by tcj

[ppilotmike 24]

Thanks tcj and Edmo. tcj, I would like to thank you for all the great informative post you have posted here and on the other forum, they have helped me greatly on my road to getting my KF1 back in the air. I wish the pictures from your for sale ad were still available, I referred to them many times. Mike

[jared payne 40]

Well I found out today that the serial #for the plane is 700 .The serial number for the engine is 22a  1503. I really hope this checks out I like the plane. Thanks for the help.

[1avidflyer 1983]

If the airplane serial # is 700, it's almost for sure a C model.  The 1503 serial # for the engine means it's a solid lifter engine and they are considered to be good engines.  Better than the next series of engines with the hydraulic lifters.  I'm a bit surprised by the comments about the STOL capabilities of the speed wing.  Usually the comments are not quite so positive.  Being at sea level or nearly so is a big plus however.  I've never flown a speedwing, so don't have any first hand experience, only going by what I've heard over the years.  JImChuk

[jared payne 40]

Are the c models bad ?1050 gross. It has the baggage door on the side.

[1avidflyer 1983]

The MK IV with heavy hauler wings has a gross weight of 1150 -1200 lbs.  The baggage door/compartment came out with the MK IV, but if you welded in the tabs to fasten the aluminum pieces to form the compartment, you could put it in any of them.  If a plane get's built after some of these updates came about, they were sometimes added in to earlier models by the builder.  JImChuk

[EDMO 1078]

Are the c models bad ?1050 gross. It has the baggage door on the side.

There is no "carved in stone" Gross Weight for Experimentals - If you want to hear (unofficially, of course) how heavy the C model with 582 can be flown at, just send a PM to Akflyer, and he might give you some feedback on it, or you can read some of his posts about Avid Aft CG.   They add xxx pounds to the advertised gross weight if you put floats on it too.  The 1050, (like the Kitfox 3 with same .065 wall wing spars as 1550 GW planes), is advertised by the Kit Companies as a guide, and you can bet that there is a 150% safety factor in the design.  Experimental GW usually depends on size of  pilot's Cahoonas, the amount of skill he has acquired, the smoothness of the air, and the kind of territory you fly in.  For long hauls, the Takeoff weight usually far exceeds the landing weight.  The Jab should pull it just fine.  EDMO

Edited 28 Jul 2017 by EDMO