Go Kart to Matco Brakes

88 posts in this topic

Posted

Here is an informational pic I'll add to this thread, showing the 2 piece brake pedal and mc-4d brake ram being pressure tested on a test stand. Basically just a rudder bar bolted to a piece of osb. post-136-13067163462724_thumb.jpgthe guage in the pic reads to 600 psi and the guage needle is more or less pinned, using only single hand/thumb pressure.According to their website Matco brakes achieve rated torque at 450 psi with 600 psi being more or less an upper limit due to caliper and guide pin deflection and flexing at pressures above that value.

So in short the brakes on Joey's plane work because the 2 piece brake pedals and mc-4d brake rams deliver gobs of pressure to the calipers on demand whenever/where ever the pilot needs it.

Mike

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Posted

Those tires look Sweet! What is the load rating per tire??

Chris Bolkan

Chris I think they are 500lbs each. They are the Nanco 21x12's. $100 shipped from ATVtires.net

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Posted

Trackwelder, I'm seriously dumbfounded by your experience! If that had of been me I just might be one brother short of a full set. As I've written, I'm pretty much banished from my own kin as I write this. From vibes I get I don't think anyone wants to get within striking distance of me, presently. Our father passed on a few months ago and I just wanted to make a fair and respectable offer for his tools (as you know I received the devil's hand with my tools being absconded with also). There must be something about tools or tainted water that has driven mankind totally crazy. Be well good man ... Jim

I am sorry for your loss, but as far as theft goes, you start looking at those closest to you, It is a shame that your family won't let you purchase your fathers tools, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get borrowed by one of the loudest against you paying a fair price. You can choose your friends but you can't chose your family.

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Posted

Here is an informational pic I'll add to this thread, showing the 2 piece brake pedal and mc-4d brake ram being pressure tested on a test stand. Basically just a rudder bar bolted to a piece of osb. post-136-13067163462724_thumb.jpgthe guage in the pic reads to 600 psi and the guage needle is more or less pinned, using only single hand/thumb pressure.According to their website Matco brakes achieve rated torque at 450 psi with 600 psi being more or less an upper limit due to caliper and guide pin deflection and flexing at pressures above that value.

So in short the brakes on Joey's plane work because the 2 piece brake pedals and mc-4d brake rams deliver gobs of pressure to the calipers on demand whenever/where ever the pilot needs it.

Mike

Thanks Mikesk, I can't believe the info I get off this site. Mike I'm caught between rocks and hard places right now, but I would really like to get back to you. I was just involved in a trafic accident and haven't been as normal as I would prefer. Thanks so much for your reply, hope I'll be a little more normal soon. Good tidings to you guy. Would like to correspond in more detail on this. Thanks ... Jim

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Posted

I am sorry for your loss, but as far as theft goes, you start looking at those closest to you, It is a shame that your family won't let you purchase your fathers tools, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get borrowed by one of the loudest against you paying a fair price. You can choose your friends but you can't chose your family.

Trackwelder, it's really funny how certain things really grow in importance over the years. Guess what, just wrecked my truck, no tools. Life goes on but sometimes it seems to be a little 'much'. Take care good man ... Jim

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Posted

Thanks Mikesk, I can't believe the info I get off this site. Mike I'm caught between rocks and hard places right now, but I would really like to get back to you. I was just involved in a trafic accident and haven't been as normal as I would prefer. Thanks so much for your reply, hope I'll be a little more normal soon. Good tidings to you guy. Would like to correspond in more detail on this. Thanks ... Jim

Here is some more info on the brake mod to read up on.

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Posted

Here is some more info on the brake mod to read up on.

Thanks Mike, I'm fileing all this good stuff for when I can get my ship righted. It's taking me a little time to sort things out right now, but I'll be back swinging ASAP. You guys are the best and I am very appreciative. Thanks so much for your interest. Be well .. Jim

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Posted

Trackwelder, it's really funny how certain things really grow in importance over the years. Guess what, just wrecked my truck, no tools. Life goes on but sometimes it seems to be a little 'much'. Take care good man ... Jim

I am sorry to here about the truck, I would be just about ready to give up if mine went too. I had another visit with the surgeon and he reduced my lifting capacity to just 5 pounds, with no sitting standing or walking for more than 5 minutes at a time, and I am getting desperate to get back in the air, it got so bad I went down to the local airport hoping to grab some airtime with another pilot, I was even willing to split fuel, perfectweather and not a plane in 12 hours. I Know this is off topic but hopefully things start getting better for you and just to make it totally clear I don't want anything from anyone if I can't get it on my own.

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Posted

I have an A model Avid S/N 113, and I really lust for the 21" tires and hyd, brakes! I will need the new rudder pedals (2-piece) and brake components from Matco. Additionally, I would love to have taller landing gear legs! Where can I buy these things? My photos are on the Avid site under Pops A model Avid. Thanks in advance for any advice!

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Posted

I have an A model Avid S/N 113, and I really lust for the 21" tires and hyd, brakes! I will need the new rudder pedals (2-piece) and brake components from Matco. Additionally, I would love to have taller landing gear legs! Where can I buy these things? My photos are on the Avid site under Pops A model Avid. Thanks in advance for any advice!

All of it is available through Brett at Airdale.

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Posted

I have an A model Avid S/N 113, and I really lust for the 21" tires and hyd, brakes! I will need the new rudder pedals (2-piece) and brake components from Matco. Additionally, I would love to have taller landing gear legs! Where can I buy these things? My photos are on the Avid site under Pops A model Avid. Thanks in advance for any advice!

Just so there is no confusion, are you refering to a pair of rudder bars or the 2 piece brake pedals Joey is using on his plane?

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Posted

At 80000 plus hits and climbing I hereby declare this thread viral...That's a lot of eyeballin, I'm thinking a lot coming from outside the avid community. :-

The 2 piece brake pedal design started out in my head with a simple enough idea, but they didn't come to life after a weekend afternoon spent in the shop with a case of beer :lol: how I normally like to do things...the end result bolted to other flyers with over sized tires and the much maligned internal caliper w62 bottom end speaks for itself.

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Posted

At 80000 plus hits and climbing I hereby declare this thread viral...That's a lot of eyeballin, I'm thinking a lot coming from outside the avid community. :-

The 2 piece brake pedal design started out in my head with a simple enough idea, but they didn't come to life after a weekend afternoon spent in the shop with a case of beer :lol: how I normally like to do things...the end result bolted to other flyers with over sized tires and the much maligned internal caliper w62 bottom end speaks for itself.

Mike,

Please elaborate about the "maligned internal caliper w62". I had not heard any thing about them.

I have a set of 6" - w60 or w600? - 3 piece Matcos, internal calipers, I am planning to use with 600 tires - Look like w62s, and 1420 lbs static. What can I expect with MC-4Ds, and is there a problem with the calipers?

Thanks,

ED in MO

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Posted

Mike,

Please elaborate about the "maligned internal caliper w62". I had not heard any thing about them.

I have a set of 6" - w60 or w600? - 3 piece Matcos, internal calipers, I am planning to use with 600 tires - Look like w62s, and 1420 lbs static. What can I expect with MC-4Ds, and is there a problem with the calipers?

Thanks,

ED in MO

Ed: The w62 was the wheel and brake system the early avids up to and including the mk4 came with. the setup didn't work with crap and of course most everyone falsely pointed the finger at matco's bottom end components.The real culprit was a haphazard toe brake setup that couldn't produce the line psi the system needed.The mc4d is the off the shelf best choice for the avid.You can put as much leverage as you want into a brakeing system, if the mechanics are defecient the line psi doesn't happen.The reason I developed the 2 piece brake pedals.Leni Joey and myself are all running w62 brake bottom ends mc4d's and 2 piece brake pedals.Stopping performance is very strong.

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Posted (edited)

Ed: The w62 was the wheel and brake system the early avids up to and including the mk4 came with. the setup didn't work with crap and of course most everyone falsely pointed the finger at matco's bottom end components.The real culprit was a haphazard toe brake setup that couldn't produce the line psi the system needed.The mc4d is the off the shelf best choice for the avid.You can put as much leverage as you want into a brakeing system, if the mechanics are defecient the line psi doesn't happen.The reason I developed the 2 piece brake pedals.Leni Joey and myself are all running w62 brake bottom ends mc4d's and 2 piece brake pedals.Stopping performance is very strong.

Thanks Mike,

Since I am a long-time Kitfox builder, and know very little about Avids, can you tell me about the 2 piece brake pedals you are referring to - I may have seen them in the photos, but that tells me little.

My Kitfoxes have all had what I thought was 2 piece pedals - a welded double upright, and 2 pivoting foot pedals, and another set of the same. The KF5 had a totally different setup.

So, where am I missing the message here?

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Thanks Mike,

Since I am a long-time Kitfox builder, and know very little about Avids, can you tell me about the 2 piece brake pedals you are referring to - I may have seen them in the photos, but that tells me little.

My Kitfoxes have all had what I thought was 2 piece pedals - a welded double upright, and 2 pivoting foot pedals, and another set of the same. The KF5 had a totally different setup.

So, where am I missing the message here?

ED in MO

Ed if you look at the very front of this thread you will see a pic of the prototypes in my plane.the brake bedals on the avid and most of the kitfoxes are of made in an open ended tubing configuration and insert thru the rudder pedal portion of the rudder bar.Now on the avid this openendedness was detering peformance so I designed a brake pedal that looks like the original but plugs the openends shut with a bridge to give an as welded rigidity to the pedal and give around a 50% boost in top end line psi over an original openended pedal.

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Posted

Ed if you look at the very front of this thread you will see a pic of the prototypes in my plane.the brake bedals on the avid and most of the kitfoxes are of made in an open ended tubing configuration and insert thru the rudder pedal portion of the rudder bar.Now on the avid this openendedness was detering peformance so I designed a brake pedal that looks like the original but plugs the openends shut with a bridge to give an as welded rigidity to the pedal and give around a 50% boost in top end line psi over an original openended pedal.

Thanks again for the explanation,

I had totally overlooked what should have been the obvious.

I can see the improvement in your setup.

ED in MO

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Posted

Since both my other threads kind of went off topic I thought I would start a new one with the info on my brake swap. I'll keep this updated as I go along. Here's a parts list.

Custom Brake Pedals from Michael Schuetz.

Brakeimage.jpg

Matco MC-4D Master Cylinders, Remote Reservoir Kit, and 1/8" line

IMG_5675.jpg

Kitfox IV Gear Legs, Douglas 8" ATV Wheels

IMG_5672.jpg

I'll be running Nanco 21X12X8 Slick tires.

Here is the BEFORE picture. Hopefully in a couple weeks I'll have an AFTER picture

IMG_5002.jpg

Do you have a way to contact Micheal so I can purchase a set of these brake pedal mod's, I am reworking my Mark IV with new gear and new brakes. Would like to add this feature to allow more brake authority on bush wheels.

thanks,

Ole

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Posted

Do you have a way to contact Micheal so I can purchase a set of these brake pedal mod's, I am reworking my Mark IV with new gear and new brakes. Would like to add this feature to allow more brake authority on bush wheels.

thanks,

Ole

Ole,

You can PM mikesk on here, he is the one whop makes the pedals. They made a big difference on mine too!

:BC:

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Posted

Ole,

You can PM mikesk on here, he is the one whop makes the pedals. They made a big difference on mine too!

:BC:/>

A little off topic here - but included as info on Grove:

My buddy with the J3 bought the Grove brake conversions - after burn in, his brakes still wouldnt hold with the C90 at full static - a call to Robbie Grove got him a heavier caliper set to cure the ailment - Grove and Warp Drive are good people to work with.

ED in MO

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Posted

Do you have a way to contact Micheal so I can purchase a set of these brake pedal mod's, I am reworking my Mark IV with new gear and new brakes. Would like to add this feature to allow more brake authority on bush wheels.

thanks,

Ole

Thanks,

He did in touch with me, I think I am going that route and believe it will work great with my setup. I will post pic's when I get things all together.

Ole

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Posted

Ole,

You can PM mikesk on here, he is the one whop makes the pedals. They made a big difference on mine too!

:BC:/>

Thanks,

He got in touch with me, going to go that route with my setup. I have the wide gear from Airdale already, getting Grove six inch rims with 1.25" axles and dual 1.75" pucks on the calipers. These will go one the Airstreak tires from Alaskan bush wheels and I think that will do. I am hanging new 670 with tuned muffler for about 86 HP and all this on my Mark IV. Will post some pics when I get a little further along with the re-work. The plane is in excellent condition prior to doing this but 582 had 300 hours on it so I thought it was time. Here is the before pic.

post-425-13562935542605_thumb.jpg

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Posted

I have a used set of aluminum Cessna 150 pedals - considering trying to see if they can be mounted in place of the original Kitfox pedals - Anyone ever try this? See any problems?

ED in MO

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Posted

There's not a lot of space for large brake peddles. Make sure you have full rudder motion and brake action, plus room for your feet.

I don't personally like the parallel bar style oem Kitfox rudder and brake setup. My buddy made a set of modified Piper peddles, similar to the Highlander design, and I plan to follow that lead.

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Posted (edited)

There's not a lot of space for large brake peddles. Make sure you have full rudder motion and brake action, plus room for your feet.

I don't personally like the parallel bar style oem Kitfox rudder and brake setup. My buddy made a set of modified Piper peddles, similar to the Highlander design, and I plan to follow that lead.

The 150 pedals are really small - The Kitfox 5, and I guess later models, only has one tube and a complicated setup for adjustable pedals - I like the KISS principle of the earlier ones. Modified Piper is good.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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