Uncoordinated Stall

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Posted

 

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Posted

Best review and in field application (or lack there of) that I have seen 

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Posted

The only way I would be flying at 17 mph would be with a 40 mph headwind - I don't need to prove anything, (or show-off)!  EDMO

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Posted

A good example of what NOT to do,however it takes a lot of and practice and discipline to get it right. Get some height and practice practice practice till ithe correct recovery is second nature.I had a similar event a few years back and had a satisfactory outcome.A kitfox will recover very quickly from a seemingly impossible situation.

thanks for posting as there is a good lesson here,I feel for the pilot (and his bank account) but it could have been worse if the personnel and vehicle were a little further forward.

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Posted

Thanks for posting this. What a great video which captures the wrong control inputs for the situation. We all make mistakes, me I seem to make more than my share. I am going to donate what I can to help Tom get back in the air, glad he was unhurt. Mike

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Posted

Wow!!! OOPS!!! Thanks for the video.. :bugeyes:

 

Not so sure I am going to support his "go fund me" page... LMAO!!! :lmao:

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Posted

If he gets a go fund me for risking his plane and life on purpose we should have one for the forum . Just saying 

Wow!!! OOPS!!! Thanks for the video.. :bugeyes:

 

Not so sure I am going to support his "go fund me" page... LMAO!!! :lmao:

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Posted

My point was, you risk it, you should be liable for it. I have done the same but I licked my own wounds!!!

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Posted

And as far as having a go fund me page for this forum... Do you have insurance?

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Posted

Sure do . I'm just saying we all take calculated risks with our planes every time we go up . He new what he was possibly getting into when he went into the contest and yeah it sucks to ding a plane or anything even with insurance . I totalled a car and ended up in CICU for 7 days I had to still fork out cash from my own pocket to get another car so I could get back to work and support my family. I just see crashes in a contest form different because you are choosing to do it and have to deal with the consequences. More power to him of he can get the donations .

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Posted

I would not focus so much on the donations.  The technical information helped me more than anything.  If the people in Alaska want to help him fix his plane more power to them.  I would be hesitate however to ask for donations if I crashed my plane.  :-)

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Posted

When I was getting my license I had a female cfi and she taught me that you need to keep the wings level , add full power and use the rudder until you are flying again. My dad also always told me that too . I know from experience that when sh!t hits the fan fast you sometimes forget the right thing to do . It sucks to have such an expensive plane get dinged up but he walked away from what could've been way worse.

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Posted

I have crashed cars, trucks, boats, etc... Ultra lights too. Never asked for a dime. Sorry, I am just that way..... ?

 

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Posted

Its kind of like a roll over fund at a dirt track.  When a guy bashes his bird at a contest trying to entertain the masses its sort of a tradition to kick a lil something in the pot here.  We may have different customs than ya'll do down south but don't take it personal.  On the other hand, if you got the cash laying around to buy an SQ and you can't afford to pay for a few wing ribs and spars then you should probly not be showing off in front of a crowd.

:BC:

 

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Posted

Each new plateau of risk, when first attained, seems to be the last; but, as we grow accustomed to it, a new horizon beckons. What insulates us from fear as we approach the danger is simply habit, the familiarity of a point we have reached and all the points we’ve left behind. Until one steps too far, it’s often hard to tell the difference between recklessness and skill

                        - US Army Flight Fax 1996

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Posted

A lot of pilots have been killed in PA-18 super cubs circling moose at 500 AGL looking at that the antlers.....circling left,the low wing gets too slow and just starts to stall and   drop,

Normal Pilot instinct is add right aileron...this lowers the left wing aileron and in effect increases the angle of attach on that wing and the plane rolls on its back into the turn and at 500 AGL you cant recover...a large part of the problem is the pilot has his attention outside the plane....and only 5% of his brain is flying the plane....

IT is very hard to train your mind to do this however if you insist on looking at anything at 500 AGL in a turn and the wing goes down, DONT add aileron, add full opposite rudder and the wing will slowly come back up....like I said it is hard to do.. If fact this applys even when flying level at real slow speeds... The Valdez SQ plane is the best video of how this happens I have ever seen....

AT 500 AGL if it happens, you will die. I know of two guys in different PA-18 who did it at 100 ft and they survived with broken ribs, arms and all beat up  and interesting enough the planes both ended up laying on one destroyed side with the opposite wing sticking up in the air undamaged!!! But at anything about 100 feet the plane ends up vertical and unsurvable...all for some stinkin moose!!!

 

My uncle showed me this problem early on in my flying lessons and I never forgot it....one second you are rock steady the next the plane is completely out of control.

personally I never got slow looking at moose and I NEVER circled them, I flew a race track and then could slow down with wings level....not always possible especially looking at sheep in the mountains but the the guy who posted above me, learn to use the rudder, not aileron when real slow....imho

 

 

 

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Posted

Zadwit, your advice is good, but for a slightly different reason.

Abuse of the rudder is the biggest single cause of low altitude turn problems. The difference in speed of each wing in an extreme turn is not enough to cause a stall. For an extreme turn, here are the numbers:

speed 60 mph, Bank angle 45 degrees, turn radius 241 feet, Speed of inside wing mid span 58 mph, tip 56 mph, Speed of outside wing mid span 62 mph, tip 64 mph (for a 30 foot wingspan)

Having instructed lots of folks, I have found that abusing the rudder causes skidding that makes the aircraft bank severely into the turn, and washes out the aileron control rapidly. Opposite rudder is clearly needed, but not because of stall, because that is what you are doing wrong, too much bottom rudder.

If you find yourself losing roll control in a steep slow turn, check ball. Add full power. Reduce back pressure and use top rudder as needed to make sure ball is centered, roll out and start a climb.

Here is a turn calculator that can help you see the physics: http://www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html

 

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Posted

the "moose hunter stall" is an accelerated stall aggravated by being uncoordinated.  This is the perfect control position for a spin, and that's what happens in most of the cases, stall spin, smoldering pile of plane and pilot parts.  My initial instructor knew what I would be doing the second he was out of the plane so he hammered the ever loving crap out of me on them.  There are a lot of basic maneuvers that we learn early on in flight training that once we take the check ride are rarely practiced.  I like to stay sharp plus have a little fun too.  When was the last time you were just out burning sky and you practiced dutch rolls, or turns about a point (really being proficient at these keeps you from being the moose stall statistic).  When was the last time you truly practiced slow flight.  I mean hanging on the prop ragged edge of a stall and drive it around the sky for awhile to stay in tune with your plane kind of flying.  Do you play around at the edge of the envelope to see just how much rudder you can get away with and not snap :dunno:  All of this is very good stuff to stay sharp with if your going to be playing around low and slow and actually be able to get you plane in and out SHORT and exactly where you want it, SAFELY.

:BC:

 

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Posted

My CFI DRILLED these things into my head. I’ve only got about 50hrs on the log so I’m still WAY green. I actually put together a trng flight plan when I go up. So I hit, slow flight, stalls (still freak me out a hair), turns around a point and split S (all the ground reference stuff)

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