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Annual Condition Inspection (Engine and Airframe Separate?)

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Posted

I am due for my annual condition inspection.  Last year I sign off the annual on my maintenance log (airframe log).  However, during my PPL checkride I learned that (at least for certified birds) the annual inspections are signed off separately in the engine log and the airframe log.  Anyone know if this separate logging is also required for experimentals as well?

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/condition-inspection

 

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Posted

I always have logs for my airframe and engine just in case . 

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Posted (edited)

I have never seen the regs on Experimental logs - all I know is that Factory (Part 23) airplanes have to have a logbook for each:

Airframe, engine, Prop.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I can't remember ever seeing any mention of a log book for an amateur built experimental plane in the regulations.  My operating limitations mention "The records" for recording completion of the phase one flight test hours and "Maintenance records" for recording condition inspections.

I keep an EAA Amateur Built Aircraft Log Book for the airframe stuff and an Engine Log EL 13P for the engine.  I record the condition inspections in both books.  Both for my own information and in case I ever install a different engine and or want to sell either just the engine or air frame.  I figure it ads value too.

 

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Posted

Wish I could reference it, but I researched the same question and remember learning that an engine log (or propeller for that matter) is not required, nor is a specific statement regarding the engine part of the CI signoff verbage (verbage spelled out in my op lims)

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Posted

I can't remember ever seeing any mention of a log book for an amateur built experimental plane in the regulations.  My operating limitations mention "The records" for recording completion of the phase one flight test hours and "Maintenance records" for recording condition inspections.

I keep an EAA Amateur Built Aircraft Log Book for the airframe stuff and an Engine Log EL 13P for the engine.  I record the condition inspections in both books.  Both for my own information and in case I ever install a different engine and or want to sell either just the engine or air frame.  I figure it ads value too.

Same exact thing I do . If it's something like fuel lines , gauges and what not I put it in both logs just because the parts are sometimes inside both areas. I try to make my books transparent as possible just in case I sell it to someone not so mechanically savvy .  

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Posted

Thanks for all the feedback.  Is there any specific verbiage required in the sign off's for experimentals?

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Posted

Depends on what kind of sign off you are talking about . If it's just a annual you put in what you did and have the a&p look everything over and he will do the rest .

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Posted

Actually no A&P on this end.  I am signing off the condition inspection as the builder/repairman. Wasnt sure if there was any specific verbiage required (as is required for the certified birds).

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Posted (edited)

Actually no A&P on this end.  I am signing off the condition inspection as the builder/repairman. Wasnt sure if there was any specific verbiage required (as is required for the certified birds).

Yes,  There is a specific verbage, and I think it is in FAR 43 Appendix D, and I don't have a copy here.

Basically, it says, "I certify that I have inspected this airplane in accordance with FAR43, part D, and have found it to be in condition for safe flight".  That would work, but those are probably not the actual words used by the FAA, and you have to sign it, with your A&P or repairman certificate number and date it. 

I think everyone should get a copy of that inspection procedure that you can probably download from the FAA site - Do you know the first step required?  It is "washing the airplane", and details each step from there.   Probably, to do a "legal" condition inspection, you would be required to have a copy of this FAR inspection procedure, just as an A&P or IA has to have current FAA/FAR items in his library?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

Washing your airplane ? I'm afraid to wash mine and have the dirt holding it together fall off and then no more plane haha . I'm one of those guys that goes to a motorcycle show without washing his bike because it's a daily driver and then try to figure out how I'm going to get the big ass trophy I won home , oh well I guess once a year couldn't hurt to clean my plane .

Actually no A&P on this end.  I am signing off the condition inspection as the builder/repairman. Wasnt sure if there was any specific verbiage required (as is required for the certified birds).

Yes,  There is a specific verbage, and I think it is in FAR 43 Appendix D, and I don't have a copy here.

Basically, it says, "I certify that I have inspected this airplane in accordance with FAR43, part D, and have found it to be in condition for safe flight".  That would work, but those are probably not the actual words used by the FAA, and you have to sign it, with your A&P or repairman certificate number and date it. 

I think everyone should get a copy of that inspection procedure that you can probably download from the FAA site - Do you know the first step required?  It is "washing the airplane", and details each step from there.  EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Washing your airplane ? I'm afraid to wash mine and have the dirt holding it together fall off and then no more plane haha . I'm one of those guys that goes to a motorcycle show without washing his bike because it's a daily driver and then try to figure out how I'm going to get the big ass trophy I won home , oh well I guess once a year couldn't hurt to clean my plane .

Actually no A&P on this end.  I am signing off the condition inspection as the builder/repairman. Wasnt sure if there was any specific verbiage required (as is required for the certified birds).

Yes,  There is a specific verbage, and I think it is in FAR 43 Appendix D, and I don't have a copy here.

Basically, it says, "I certify that I have inspected this airplane in accordance with FAR43, part D, and have found it to be in condition for safe flight".  That would work, but those are probably not the actual words used by the FAA, and you have to sign it, with your A&P or repairman certificate number and date it. 

I think everyone should get a copy of that inspection procedure that you can probably download from the FAA site - Do you know the first step required?  It is "washing the airplane", and details each step from there.  EDMO

 

Please go back up and read my edited post:  IMO:  Everyone, whether he owns or inspects an airplane, should have a copy of the FAA requirements for inspection of Experimental Airplanes.  Ask any Aviation Lawyer!  How can anyone certify "Inspected in accordance with" if you don't have a copy of the rules?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I think it would be great if one of our computer-minded members would post a copy of the FAR43-D inspection list in Files and Forms.  EDMO

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Posted

To all great experimental aircraft owners in the US, it is my firm belief that having an aircraft and engine log / Propeller log (not required in the us but required every else in the world) is an added value for resale. At least the buyer can assess all maintenance/work done and confirm Hrs on engine/prop/airframe. If you sell outside the US it is very hard, sometimes impossible to sell because of the lack of logs.

 

My two cents & keep them flying...

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Posted

Actually no A&P on this end.  I am signing off the condition inspection as the builder/repairman. Wasnt sure if there was any specific verbiage required (as is required for the certified birds).

Yes,  There is a specific verbage, and I think it is in FAR 43 Appendix D, and I don't have a copy here.

Basically, it says, "I certify that I have inspected this airplane in accordance with FAR43, part D, and have found it to be in condition for safe flight".  That would work, but those are probably not the actual words used by the FAA, and you have to sign it, with your A&P or repairman certificate number and date it. 

I think everyone should get a copy of that inspection procedure that you can probably download from the FAA site - Do you know the first step required?  It is "washing the airplane", and details each step from there.   Probably, to do a "legal" condition inspection, you would be required to have a copy of this FAR inspection procedure, just as an A&P or IA has to have current FAA/FAR items in his library?   EDMO

Thanks Ed.  However Part 43 doesnt apply to experimentals.  I can probably use a similar statement per:

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/condition-inspection

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Posted

As far as verbage, here it is straight out of mt operating limitaions (that I  got from the faa document request for my plane)

Note lines 17 and 18:

 

20170915_082733.jpg

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Posted

Thanks Ed.  However Part 43 doesnt apply to experimentals.  I can probably use a similar statement per:

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/condition-inspection

Your operating limitations will specify that you do the inspection as per appendix D of part 43.

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Posted (edited)

Actually no A&P on this end.  I am signing off the condition inspection as the builder/repairman. Wasnt sure if there was any specific verbiage required (as is required for the certified birds).

Yes,  There is a specific verbage, and I think it is in FAR 43 Appendix D, and I don't have a copy here.

Basically, it says, "I certify that I have inspected this airplane in accordance with FAR43, part D, and have found it to be in condition for safe flight".  That would work, but those are probably not the actual words used by the FAA, and you have to sign it, with your A&P or repairman certificate number and date it. 

I think everyone should get a copy of that inspection procedure that you can probably download from the FAA site - Do you know the first step required?  It is "washing the airplane", and details each step from there.   Probably, to do a "legal" condition inspection, you would be required to have a copy of this FAR inspection procedure, just as an A&P or IA has to have current FAA/FAR items in his library?   EDMO

Thanks Ed.  However Part 43 doesnt apply to experimentals.  I can probably use a similar statement per:

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/frequently-asked-questions/condition-inspection

Thanks to a couple of our members who clarified my claim, that FAR 43, appendix D, does apply to Experimental inspections.  Now, if we could get someone to copy that appendix D into our Files and Forms everyone could read how the inspection is supposed to be done.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Jim,  That reads a little different than the older version I had read.   I printed a copy of it.  EDMO

Here it is.  JImChuk                                                                             

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=881ef6ab1ed627d411bb5fa792e1614d&mc=true&node=ap14.1.43_117.d&rgn=div9

 

 

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Thanks for all the feedback.  No intention to get anyone riled up, but it does appear wording suggests, but does not require, Part 43 appendix D.

From the above it sounds like Appendix D wording "can" be used as an option (or other similar type wording).  Can do the inspection per Part 43 Part D or something else that is similar. The wording provides the option to substitute with something else in lieu of Part 43.  (per #18 MN KITFOX 2)

I still see that per FAR 43 applicability that 43 doesn't apply to experimentals (its not a "must" follow), however is a good outline to refer to.

§ 43.1 Applicability.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (d) of this section, this part prescribes rules governing themaintenancepreventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration of any -

(1) Aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate;

(2) Foreign-registered civil aircraft used in common carriage or carriage of mail under the provisions of Part 121 or 135 of this chapter; and

(3) Airframeaircraft engines, propellers, appliances, and component parts of such aircraft.

(b) This part does not apply to -

(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft;

(2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under the provisions of § 21.191(i)(3) of this chapter, and the aircraft was previously issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category under the provisions of § 21.190 of this chapter; or

(3) Any aircraft subject to the provisions of part 107 of this chapter.

 

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Posted

"... In accordance with..." is the key part of the required verbiage regarding 43 appendix D. 

Look at your operating limitations. That is where the rubber meets the gravel bar. 

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