Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

582 blue head radiator hose routing

15 posts in this topic

Posted

I am flying an avid b model with two cheek radiators and I would like to add a belly radiator to work in conjunction with the cheek rads. Tx heat during the summer gets it hotter than I would like flying two up.  I have to really be cognizant of the ambient temps with two people because my cruise can stay about 180 and climb goes higher. Anyway my inverted 582 blue head has the bypass line running around the rear of the engine with the radiator plumbing going from the thermostat. My question is can I plug the belly rad into the bypass/ recuirculate line since both the water pump and bypass line are angled backwards it would be easy to splice into that routing for the belly rad and I would just keep the cheek rad plumbing as it is. Is there a problem with cold seizure or something else by doing it this way or is there a better way to keep cheek and add a belly rad? Thanks Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I flew in the Florida summer heat with no overheating with my cheek radiators. Are they sealed good and have you tried the super coolant stuff . I had overheating issues when I changed my nose and had to use a different radiator set up . I tried the coolant stuff and it worked like a charm . Dropped my temps down 20°

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes I have tried coolant additives, dropping ratio etc. rads are sealed with foam surrounds It is "ok" solo but two people really pushes it in climb which I would be ok with if I could get back down in temps.  

In 95 ish or higher temps two people I hit 185-190 just getting to 1000-1200 AGL( have hit 195 which really made me nervous so I nosed over in a slightly lower than level flight to get temps down). I then try to step climb my way up but once I am at cruise (approx 2000 AGL) I still have to watch it because it is about 178-180 which is a little on the uncomfortable side. Therefore I am putting a belly rad on. I know I am going to have to cover  some of the rad surface in the winter and I am ok with that. Solo in hot weather I can get a little higher before I step climb since it climbs faster and it seems to drop the temps easier since I dont need to use the same power setting for level flight solo.  I think my best solution is to try a belly rad at this time. I am not overly concerned with how far into the slip stream I need to get it simply because I think an additional 1/2 gallon plus the cooling fins should be adequate to drop it 10 degrees and let the climb last longer. So any help routing lines for both would be appreciated. Joey I think you did that for a little while didn't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One thing I just thought of. It might be slightly lighter but what about electric puller fans on each cheek rad. I would think that there would be enough air going through the rad to cool at max efficiency with a big fan and going 80 mph but just thought I would ask. I think my problem is not enough volume and rad space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

  Another thing, are you absolutely sure of your temp gauge?  Although, at 95 OAT, I'm not surprised you are having issues with overheating.  When I put my sender in a can of boiling water, I found it was reading 20 degrees high.  Something to cross of the list if you haven't already done so.   JImChuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No Jim I have not double checked it. As long as I am 85 or below with two I can cruise comfy at about 173-176 and I am ok with that (if it is in the 70s it will cruise in the 165-169 range). I can even deal with the step climb at that ambient temp because I see the temps reacting relatively quickly after a climb. I use an EIS system and it so far has been pretty trouble free. My biggest concern is the climb after take off getting hot so fast with two on board. I weigh 185 and so far the biggest person that has flown with me is approx 180. I have a friend in the 200 lb range that wants to go and I am having to tell him to wait until it cools off more. I got to thinking about this after telling him that. The plane performs well even at the higher temps but I never let it above 190 before I level off and try to do it at 180. Problem is if it is 190 500' AGL it doesn't leave you much play room to level and start your step climb. It just makes me uncomfortable if I am trying to gain altitude from a 500' level while trying to keep temps down. To do so I have been keeping it in 180-190 range between steps going up and I just feel uncomfortable running it so hot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well then I would ask, what if your gauge is actually reading to low??  If it's not real hard to check, it can't hurt knowing what it's actually saying.  JImChuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Keep in mind adding the second radiator adds weight and drag that you will notice. I got your PM. I will post some pics on how mine was routed. I ditched almost 15lbs off the nose when I went to a single belly radiator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I will try to get a reading on my sending unit although not sure how I will do that. Would a jumper wire from the sending unit wire (female spade) be acceptable or would that change the reading due to electrical losses? I thought I would use a jumper  from the EIS to the sender and wrap a ground wire jumper around the sender. Then drop it in a pot of water heated next to the plane and use a candy thermometer to help check accuracy. If there is a better way I am open to suggestions. I know two rads would add some weight which I am not exactly fond of but if I took the cheek rads out I am guessing it would be better for me to close in the holes where the cheek rads used to be. Don't know if it would hurt or not having two big holes where the rads used to be.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Ok tested the sending unit and it is spot on 211 degrees at boiling at 700' 71 degrees F. In fact the calibration thermometer I got for my fabric iron was 20 degrees low lol. Leads me back to where I started. The cheek rads have 135 cubic inches of core (6"x7.5"x1.5"x2 rads), The belly rad I got from TJay has 126 cubic inches of core (4"x18"x1.75") It would seem soley by virtue of that, the cheek rads should be better at cooling than the belly rad. I have been reading that people having problems usually do away with the cheek rads in favor of the belly rad which seems to be adequate. Therefore I can only think the only difference is the amount of air passing through the rads. If that is the case would adding a six inch electric fan behind each cheek rad to pull the air be enough to drop it a few degrees? I know it would help at idle on the ground but don't know about in the air. I know it is thinking outside of the box and would add a pound or two up front but it would keep the current look (which I like) and keep from having to replumb and hang a belly rad. If people think the belly rad by itself would be adequate I guess I could replumb and remove the cheek rads . I think I would put some sort of cover,block etc inside of the current cowling rad openings though. Just concerned with doing all that and end up back in the same predicament because of the smaller cubic inches of core. also don't know if the fans would tax the electrical too much.

Mark

Edited by tx_swordguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Can always mount the radiator on the side of the cowl . I have the cover for it I think . 

20170419_191611.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I wonder if you shouldn't try to just eliminate the cheek radiators and install the belly one down low  and try to fly like that. It must work alot of kitfoxes in hot hot climates flying. Worth a try

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I am starting to lean that way TJay. I was originally going to run both for a good cool climb but am now second guessing that. Just wondering since they two cheeks are about the same coverage as the belly if the belly will be enough by itself. I was actually thinking I may put a thermostat in the bypass line and splice into that with the belly rad. I would have thermostats on both sides of the engine even if one failed the other would allow coolant to flow through a rad instead of just circulating like it would now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The Kitfox  belly radiator is used to cool the 912 making 80 HP, maybe the 100 HP one also.  It should cool the 582 as well.   Glad you found out that your gauge is correct.  At least then you know for sure what you are dealing with.  JImChuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

That small belly radiator has cooled up to 140 hp in modified 912 engines. 

I put an inline thermostat in mine in order to not over cool my 105 hp engine. 

Edited by Av8r3400

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0