How to keep the Catalina alive

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Posted

I am openly curious how keep this aircraft alive? Is it possible to move it to plans built? Maybe find someone to pickup where Avid left off. The frame part would doable with plans, but one would need molds for fiberglass parts, or very specific plans to recreate them. How do we make more of these wonderful planes? Lets brainstorm.

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Posted

well.. I have one that the molds could be made off of real easy right now if you know a mold maker.  The rest of it would be easy to reproduce with maybe a few changes to make a better aircraft such as the riblett airfoil etc. 

 

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Posted

I am not sure if the new Avid guy has the molds and rights to the catalina or if he plans on putting it back into production.  My emails to him have.. shockingly.. gone unanswered. 

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Posted

There is the guy in Two Harbors Mn that has the Avid molds.  Maybe he has the ones for the Catalina as well.  JImChuk

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Posted

The "new" Avid owner Mark Mendick also left my last email with a few important questions about the Catalina unanswered......

 

Laurent

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Posted (edited)

I am openly curious how keep this aircraft alive? Is it possible to move it to plans built? Maybe find someone to pickup where Avid left off. The frame part would doable with plans, but one would need molds for fiberglass parts, or very specific plans to recreate them. How do we make more of these wonderful planes? Lets brainstorm.

You don't have to move it to plans built, but guess you could do that if you want to answer all the questions on the FAA form for scratch-builts, which even includes making longerons, and any commercial assistance will count against your 51% for Kit-Built, which does not require anything but being approved by FAA/Kitmaker - Since Avid no longer makes the plane, if you don't have the original bill of sale, I think you can still get it approved if not on current 51% list - someone on here told how to do that.  You can modify a Kit-built any way you want to and still qualify for the 51%.    IMO, "Don't ask - Don't tell"!   EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

Does anybody know Avid owner Mark Mendick? Or how to contact beyond email? A new Catalina production would  solve all. 

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Posted

Does anybody know Avid owner Mark Mendick? Or how to contact beyond email? A new Catalina production would  solve all. 

I am going to be pretty shocked if there is not a big pissing match and quite possibly some court issues between airdale and the "new" Avid guy.  Gonna be an Avid/Kitfox fight all over again would be my guess.  I was pretty hopeful when we got the news from the "new" avid guy, but lack of email response and lack of participation on this forum kind of leaves me thinking its not panning out the way he had hoped.  I truly hope I am wrong.  If I thought I could make a living at it I would already be in full production making parts and pieces, but the market is so spotty that its tough to do a start up on it.  When it comes down to it, if the market will only pay say 35 bucks for a part I have 10 in materials and an hours time into making I am not paying myself shit once consumables, electricity etc is figured into it.  So far the parts I have made for people have been a pretty substantial loss if I figure my time is worth about 2 bucks an hour :lol:  To make a full Catalina kit your going to be in it for 30k in time and materials at a minimum and what is the market willing to pay :dunno:  but I can tell you that your not going to be able to push enough of them out the door to make a living for a long time until the name and reputation is built back up.

:BC:

 

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Posted

Mark Mendick's e mail.........    mmendick@avidkitplanes.com

 

And still no website......

I really would love to see someone resurecting the avid production

 

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Posted

Brett is in no position to sue anyone. 

As far as I understand he owns Airdale.  I don't know if he has any legal right to the Avid, Magnum or Catalina names. 

Leni hit the nail on the head, this business model is a financial loss no matter how you cut it. 

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Posted

IMO, if you want a new Catalina kit, buy a Sea Ray. 

 

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Posted

IMO, if you want a new Catalina kit, buy a Sea Ray. 

 

I talked to the original builder of my amphib.  He sold it and bought a sea ray thinking that very thing.  He did not like the sea ray at all and said he would much rather have the catalina back.  He sold the Sea ray.

Damn, all this talk is getting me wanting to get back to work on my bird.

:BC:

 

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Posted (edited)

Flying the CAT I can confirm the usability of the bigger cabin of the catalina (3 seats/or cargo) is fantastic (I can even sleep in it, my head on the copilot's seat and my feet on the rear pax seat:) 

Also I find the folding wings a must. I have already saved 10'000 $ hangar fees in 3 years.........on top it's a safety feature if you have to park it outside overnight (like an oceanfront beach) in stormy weather.....just fold it and you're safe...

Performance wise (with a 912) it's much better than a searay because it's much lighter (250-300Lbs lighter) and has same kind of wing area.....rate of climb for example on the searay is anemic (650 Fpm)

I also hate the wires strung from the wing trailing edge to the rear fuse.....

Landing gear outside also ugly

Toooooo expensive

Etc....

I am probably biased....but that's my point of view anyhow..cheeeers, Laurent

 

Edited by flywise
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Posted (edited)

Well I am still a good 6 mos. to year from looking for a kit but I agree the Catalina has potential to be superior to the Searey. For reasons previously stated. I think one path might be an “open source” where money is not an issue. It was tried in the Long-EZ community under something called the Open-EZ which had marginal success in keeping the design alive. I also agree kits is not something you are going to make alot of money with. Further more I would like to see a few improvements and agree that wing needs an update and I think that a min of an Rotax 912 with design to help with beefing up for a 912is and 914 to be needed. This would make this a very reliable craft  and very fuel effiecent. I propose this new craft to called the Mk.II Amphibian nicknamed “The Rubber Duck”. Serioulsy look at a yellow Catalina. It looks like rubber duck lol and its just a fun name. 

71044E16-B144-4749-8498-9F464386CCE3.jpeg

295A6275-F4CD-4174-B8FF-AAB90F12E3BF.jpeg

Edited by Bluepilot5
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Posted

come on down when I get home.  We can pull all the measurements you want and draw up some good sketches.  the only parts that will be a bitch to make are the fiberglass parts but I am at a point on mine right now that it would be easy for someone (like the guys in wasilly) to make molds off mine.  A little update to the canopy design and you can eliminate that FG piece etc.  There are quite a few FG pieces that would need to be made, it only takes money to do it.  I bet some CF parts would be SWEET and shave some weight as well.  Suberavid has an inside line to the mold makers / parts builders. 

:BC:

 

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Posted

Carbon fiber with a 912, beefed up gear, better airfoil. The “Rubber Duck” would very simply rock! Hell yeah! With a side of “F$&k Yeah” to dip it in. This is starting to getting my tail bushy lol, will do on trip down, just let me know what days are good for you.

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Posted

Some parts might be improved with Carbon Fiber, but not lightened.  Most of Fiberglass and CF weight is in the resin, and it is the same for both.  Carbon also isn't as 'neutral' as glass, so the wet bits would need to be fiberglass anyway.  Seems most boats are still fiberglass.  There is a probably a reason....

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Posted

My 24' hydra sport is kevlar and its a good bit lighter than a comparable FG boat.  My guess is it does not take as many layers to get the same strength.  I am not a CF guy so I don't know much about how it would handle exposure to waer etc, but I think the gel coat pretty much takes care of that doesn't it :dunno:

:BC:

 

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Posted

Just throwing in another 2c worth:  Kevlar is tough and lighter than Fiberglass and more flexible - CF is stiffer, but corrosive when touching metal - Maybe some combined deep thinking about what sections need to be flexible or ridged and what combination might be the best design?  EDMO

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Posted

My 24' hydra sport is kevlar and its a good bit lighter than a comparable FG boat.  My guess is it does not take as many layers to get the same strength.  I am not a CF guy so I don't know much about how it would handle exposure to waer etc, but I think the gel coat pretty much takes care of that doesn't it :dunno:

:BC:

 

Kevlar is a different animal than CF - tougher, takes a beating (bullets), which makes it better for boats, other than it degrades with exposure to water, so keep that gel coat maintained!

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Posted

Please don't think I am trying to pizzle on anybody's parade. Just curious what you all think the bottom line is as far as Avid, with or without the Catalina, being 're-introduced'.

 

I figure it would be a non-starter considering the expense and the existing competition. No factory, no crew, no equipment and designs that stopped evolving when the doors closed. So, Avid would be duking it out with Kitfox, Rans, Just and others. They would have to be 'X' amount better or 'X' amount cheaper to snag market share. Yes, the Catalina is fairly unique but it would not, could not, be inexpensive. Plus, it's a small part of a small market.

 

To my way of thinking, Avids' best hope would be supporting the kits and completions already out there with updates and improvements. I think you have to do that for a few years, steady. When that is solid, come out with a new model with various build options.

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Posted

Please don't think I am trying to pizzle on anybody's parade. Just curious what you all think the bottom line is as far as Avid, with or without the Catalina, being 're-introduced'.

 

I figure it would be a non-starter considering the expense and the existing competition. No factory, no crew, no equipment and designs that stopped evolving when the doors closed. So, Avid would be duking it out with Kitfox, Rans, Just and others. They would have to be 'X' amount better or 'X' amount cheaper to snag market share. Yes, the Catalina is fairly unique but it would not, could not, be inexpensive. Plus, it's a small part of a small market.

 

To my way of thinking, Avids' best hope would be supporting the kits and completions already out there with updates and improvements. I think you have to do that for a few years, steady. When that is solid, come out with a new model with various build options.

pretty much my thinking exactly.  To try and open the doors without a parts inventory and then coming out with a refined design is just asking for trouble.  It will take a few years for people to even think about new kits till the "new" Avid company has proven it has the ability to stick around and supply parts to the existing fleet.  I looked at it long and hard trying to figure out how to make it work and the old saying comes true.. If you want to make a million in the aviation business you need to start with 5 million.  deeper than my pockets :lol:

If you have backers that are independently wealthy that can float you for a few years, pay you a living wage, pay for inventory build up etc, there may be a slight shot at making it, but you have to come out with some fairly improved design to get back on top of the current kit makers.

Making parts here and there for existing avids is not a model that will keep your doors open.  You have to include other fabrication work etc to keep you busy making real money.  Was going to do that with my son till he decided heroin was more fun than building parts and making a business go.

:BC:

 

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Posted (edited)

"Was going to do that with my son till he decided heroin was more fun than building parts and making a business go."

OMG - The only outcome to that is jail or death, or both!  Wife's extended family has been going thru some of that.  I cant say how much I hate it!  EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

"Was going to do that with my son till he decided heroin was more fun than building parts and making a business go."

OMG - The only outcome to that is jail or death, or both!  Wife's extended family has been going thru some of that.  I cant say how much I hate it!  EDMO

he is in jail now.  Hopefully for a very long time. 

:BC:

 

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Posted (edited)

"Was going to do that with my son till he decided heroin was more fun than building parts and making a business go."

OMG - The only outcome to that is jail or death, or both!  Wife's extended family has been going thru some of that.  I cant say how much I hate it!  EDMO

he is in jail now.  Hopefully for a very long time. 

:BC:

 

Best bet - maybe saved his life?  I've got one to worry about too - but not much I can do 4000 miles away!  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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