Pre-buy inspection in Grey Eagle, MN

23 posts in this topic

Posted

I'm new to the Avid/Kitfox group, looking into purchasing one.  I've found one in Minnesota that looks interesting, but I live in Texas.  Is there someone in the Grey Eagle, MN area who could perform a pre-buy inspection?  That's a long way for me to go to look at a plane on the hope it's in good shape.

Thanks,

Chris

 

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Posted

That's right in the middle of the state.  I'm 180 miles north.  If it was closer..... JImChuk

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Posted

I'm thinking your best help from this forum might be getting some input from the experts here on what to consider, and what to ask about before you even get to the inspection stage:

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1314132_+Avid+Flyer+Heavy+duty%2CHauler.html

Totally agree with above - Questions about hours on plane and engine, when last flown, any wrecks or major repairs, how stored, fabric age and condition, etc.  Another thing to do is get tail number and go to FAA site and you can get copies of all records on it.  EDMO

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Posted

Absolutely right.  I'll take all the help I can get.  What other things should I bee asking about?  Are there certain "gotchas" on different models that I should be carful of?  

Thanks for the help.

Chris

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Posted

The Avid guys could tell you more than I know - I've had Kitfoxitis for 25 years!  From what I read, many models are listed wrong - For example:  An Avid IV might be a C or a C could be a B model with modifications.  GW varies with model and wings - anywhere from 850 to 1200?   EDMO

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Posted (edited)

Did some more digging, it's had 5 owners, no official reports of accidents or incidents.  Got it's airworthness cert in 2006.  JImChuk

PS  just looked closer at some pics of it, and it has the MK IV door latches.  My bet is it's a MK IV.  Serial # is made up so it's no help

Edited by 1avidflyer
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Posted

Did some more digging, it's had 5 owners, no official reports of accidents or incidents.  Got it's airworthness cert in 2006.  JImChuk

Each owner looking for a little profit?  ???  What model is FAA listing?   EDMO

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Posted

FAA site says it's a MK IV heavy hauler.  It started out it Florida, then Pa. then Mn. then Mi. now back to Mn.  Michigan guy had it 5 months, rest of them longer.  I remember when the first Mn guy had it for sale, although I don't know what he was asking for it.  It stuck in my mind, cause it was about 100 miles from me then.  JImChuk

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Posted

Always ask the empty weight and Max Gross weight (they are neither standard and are the best single measure of the payload that you end up with). A good Mark IV will weigh perhaps 560 lbs empty, and the max gross should be 1150 for a true MK IV, so you get almost 600 lbs of useful load. The serial number of a Mark IV should end in a D (mine S/N is 1172D)

Also, ask about the fuel tanks, older birds cant take ethanol mix, and the tanks dissolve and leak. They are a pain to change out, but nearly everyone has done so. Ask if these are the original tanks.

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Posted

If you can get non ethanol fuel, or run avgas, I don't think the tanks are that big of a problem.  Mn does have non ethanol premium available.  JImChuk

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Posted (edited)

If you can get non ethanol fuel, or run avgas, I don't think the tanks are that big of a problem.  Mn does have non ethanol premium available.  JImChuk

You should be able to get Non-E gas thru Farm Bureau or Marine supply somewhere in Texas, and Airports sometimes sell pure mogas.  Mixing oil in the tanks also seems to help according to what I have read.  "Puregas" site gives you stations that sell gas without Iowa Moonshine in it.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Wow, great info and inputs from all!  I appreciate it, please keep them coming.  I think I'm ok with the gas, we have non-ethanol mogas available at our field here.  I'll ask about weights, and I've asked to see the logs.  Maybe I can figure out dates for recovering from them.

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

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Posted

Wow, great info and inputs from all!  I appreciate it, please keep them coming.  I think I'm ok with the gas, we have non-ethanol mogas available at our field here.  I'll ask about weights, and I've asked to see the logs.  Maybe I can figure out dates for recovering from them.

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

If it was properly covered and painted in 2006 with inside storage then the fabric should be good - even with some outside storage the fabric should still be OK.  EDMO

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Posted (edited)

IMO a 2 stroke can make a great aircraft engine, but it needs to be taken very well cared for, run, and maintained.  If there is any doubt (after talking to the owner) I would want to devalue it enough for an overhaul and inspection.  That's just me, and not everyone here would entirely agree with that position, but something to consider.

If you can, have them take pics for you of as much of the plane as you can (inside and out).  Then post here for a lookover from some expert eyes.

Edited by MN Kitfox 2
The way I said it first didn't come across right! LOL

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Posted (edited)

I’m a bit of a stickler on details and the first thing that caught my eye in that Ad was “Rotex” perhaps a typo but a good indicator that they may know nothing about the FWF which could be good or bad. The second thing I noticed was the same pic posted 3 times that basically shows what color it is. I called a guy once and he argued with me for 15 minutes that his plane had a 585 Rotex in it. I ended up telling him good luck and ran in the opposite direction. This looks like a solid little plane but it has most likely been sitting around a lot based on Jim’s History report. I’ve seen these time and again and you need to consider in pricing  that you are most picking up a project that’s going to need some money and time put into it to bring it back up to airworthy. These little planes and two strokes are not Cessnas that can be left to sit in a hangar for 6 years and then be ready to fly in an afternoon on the same gas it was parked with. If it’s only been flown 20-30 hrs the past 5 years and it’s out of inspection a very thorough pre-buy is in order. Also based on the panel, overall condition, and the engine unknowns 16k is prob closer to the top of the price range in today’s 2-stroke market. Just my opinion. 

Edited by C5Engineer
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Posted

I’m a bit of a stickler on details and the first thing that caught my eye in that Ad was “Rotex” perhaps a typo but a good indicator that they may know nothing about the FWF which could be good or bad. The second thing I noticed was the same pic posted 3 times that basically shows what color it is. I called a guy once and he argued with me for 15 minutes that his plane had a 585 Rotex in it. I ended up telling him good luck and ran in the opposite direction. This looks like a solid little plane but it has most likely been sitting around a lot based on Jim’s History report. I’ve seen these time and again and you need to consider in pricing  that you are most picking up a project that’s going to need some money and time put into it to bring it back up to airworthy. These little planes and two strokes are not Cessnas that can be left to sit in a hangar for 6 years and then be ready to fly in an afternoon on the same gas it was parked with. If it’s only been flown 20-30 hrs the past 5 years and it’s out of inspection a very thorough pre-buy is in order. Also based on the panel, overall condition, and the engine unknowns 16k is prob closer to the top of the price range in today’s 2-stroke market. Just my opinion. 

That's about what I have been thinking Joey - They are asking top $$$ for a plane that has had lots of owners and locations and is a long way from him.  There should be some Avids or Kitfoxes closer to Texas for sale.  Maybe he should keep on looking?  EDMO

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Posted

One other thing here, is the owner's  widow is selling the plane.   Owner passed away a few months after he bought it.  I talked to her, not interested in the plane myself, I took it on myself to call in Chris's behalf.  She did say I should contact the AnPs that did the conditional inspection, as they knew way more about the plane then she did.  As far as the plane being sold a few times, any of us who have flown these planes and larger certified planes know they don't handle the same.  How many pilots have bought these small planes and found out they were more of a handful then they were expecting, and sold it soon afterwards.  JImChuk

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Posted

Jim I kind of had a hunch that was the scenario here. Not a big a deal it's been sold a lot as long as they all did the paper trail. Someone starting the registration process and not finishing it can make it a pain to register especially without a complete bill of sale trail. It's the lots of transport and sitting that I would be concerned with.

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Posted

Thanks all for the words so far.  I had her send me pics of the engine and airframe logs.  Nothing abnormal, and no mention of any resigning, so I'm assuming original 2000 Ceconite.  What's the collective wisdom on 11 year old skins?

nlappos mentioned the serial number should end in D.  This one is N9032K.

I found this on the web: and a couple pictures too.

Folding Wing LSA: Manufactured in 2000, Professionally built and covered with Ceconite.
Airframe: 124 hours TTAF
Engine: 231 hours TTE Rotax 582
Prop: 3 blade warp drive prop
Avionics:
 Portable VHF NAV/COM radio with VOR/NAV
 Intercom
Stick mounted push to talk switches
 Garmin Transponder with altitude encoding
 Instruments:
AS, ALT, T&B, VSI, Tach, EGT, Water Temp, Compass, ELT, Strobe/Position/Nav and Landing Lights
BRS chute
Two 14 gal wing tanks
Wheel Pants
Wide Ldg Gear 
Trailer included

No known damage and no corrosion
Nice Light Sport airplane

Fresh Annual

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Posted

She also sent me these photos.  

I'm thinking the engine for sure needs to be checked out since it has sat so long.  

Any other thoughts?  All wisdom is welcome.  

Thanks,

Chris

 

KIMG0559.jpg

KIMG0561.jpg

KIMG0562.jpg

KIMG0565.jpg

KIMG0566.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Did you look at the new Kitfox 3-4 I posted in For Sale in Ohio? - on ebay $15K bids - one more day. 

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Chris,  I sent you a private email that may help in your search for info.  JImChuk

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