Posted 23 Nov 2017 What parts do I need to remove my Rotax 503 air cooled and install a Rotax 582 liquid cooled engine? Can I reuse my engine mount?Where do I get a radiator, the hoses and parts and pieces to install a new 582. I think I will buy a new 582, any suggestions where to buy one???My 503 has 154 hours sine new and about 2 hours since decarbon so after I get the 582installed, Ill sell the 503 I think...Any comments or suggestions welcome please!!!Thanks, Mark Smith in Davenport, Wa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Nov 2017 My plane is a 1999 SKystar Kitfox Classic IV with a 503 air cooled engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Nov 2017 I believe the mount will work with either engine. Occasionally used radiators come up for sale. Maybe Ed has one. Also, you need the filler cap fitting and a overflow catch bottle plus the hoses. Can't think of anything else off hand right now. If it was me, and was looking at changing the engine, I would maybe consider an HKS. 4 stroke, 2 cylinder, very easy on fuel, and makes a bit more power than the 503, although a bit less than the 582. JImChuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Nov 2017 (edited) The belly radiator is available from Murle Williams. The original Kitfox FWF had a brass set up like the one pictured below. I got mine from another member here. Makes the plumbing easy if you can find one. The rest isn't too cosmic. You'll need to mount the RV reservoir and overflow bottle someplace and the rest should be close to the same. Which gearbox do you have? A new 582 is spendy! Rotax Rick will give you a great deal on a fresh low TT 582 if you trade in your 503. Carbs, exhaust, and gearbox will all swap over. Edited 23 Nov 2017 by C5Engineer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Nov 2017 Should take a pic of your current engine mount if it has the side rails it will probably work with the 582 but the flat plate one may not. I had to do a bunch of rewelding on mine to make it fit a 582. One of the down tubes ran strait into the carb had to move it down a bit. I agree with Jim if your gonna spend all the money setting up a 582. Find a used 4 stroker. High time 912's are about the same money as a newer 582 Or if you want to fly with the Big boys buy a Jabiru 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Nov 2017 (edited) TJay, Was the mount shown above originally for a 503? Did you have to make a new mounting plate for it, or just put new engine bolt holes in it? My 532 mounts are supposed to fit the 582. The Kitfox 1 manual had drawings for both the 532 and 503 mounting plates like the one shown under your engine above, but I think they moved the 503 farther forward than the 532. I believe the rubber mounts were all in the same location, so I was thinking that they only used one mount with different plates. EdMO Edited 23 Nov 2017 by EDMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 Nov 2017 I think my issue was when I was making the plate I set the engine as far back as I could to help counter the Gear box weight I would think if you move the engine 1/2 inch forward it would clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 (edited) Can I throw a stone in the pond?Simonini Victor 2 Plus (the current "smallest" Victor 2 model) give 100 HP and weights ~20 kg less than a 912 (~7.5 gallons of fuel), consumes 12-13 liters/hour (like a 912). Compared to the 912, other than half price (costs like a new 582) and the already mentioned 20 kg less, you can also change to a light weight battery as you don't need a heavy lead battery in the tail for CG... (another ~1.5 gallon of fuel..).It uses the same fittings as the 532/582 and the propeller axis comes out at the same position but the engine mount might need some minor re-modelling as the rear of the Simonini is wider than the Rotax. You can reuse the radiators from your 532/582.I know Simonini is almost unknown in the US. I have only 150 hours on mine (the old model with only 92HP...) and it works like a charm. The power is there, no question about that, and no issues to report. I have been in contact with a number of Simonini Victor 2 owners and no one has any (first hand) issues to report. The only problem I have had is that excess oil accumulate in the spark plugs (mounted heads down, I had the same issue with my 532...) but this appears to have been resolved by a slightly different design of the cylinder heads in the current 100 HP model. A friend just installed one 100 HP in his Avid and he is very happy with it. To be clear, I have no relation to Simonini, I'm just sharing my experience (you can find more info on my blog, link in my signature). Nor do I have anything against Rotax, but when I got the opportunity to replace a 30 year old snowmobile engine with a modern engine I took a chance I have not regretted. Ok, maybe I have something against Rotax, maybe I got tired of the taste after getting fed Rotax morning, lunch and dinner every day...and paying it through the nose...Fred Edited 24 Nov 2017 by FredStork 4 people like this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 Can the gear box on that engine be turned 180 degrees? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 Can the gear box on that engine be turned 180 degrees?I was just about to ask the same question TJay - He shows both engines that would be mounted plugs down, like Avids - Kitfox mounts theirs plugs up with the gear box rotated 180 degrees. EDMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 Yes, the gear box can be mounted both ways. It has 2 different oil level plugs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 (edited) Fred, Does anyone make mounts for that engine for Avid and Kitfox? What about exhausts, props and other stuff? EDMO Edited 24 Nov 2017 by EDMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 (edited) My stone is making waves...To my knowledge there is no "factory" built mount for Simonini that would fit Avid or KitFox but with fittings identical to Rotax 582 you can either reuse, or "easily" find, an engine mount that will almost fit. Much easier to modify an existing mount than to create one from scratch - particularly if you want to save the rest of your installation.As mentioned, the rear end of the engine is wider than a 582. I made a new back plate, less protruding, and moved the ignition coils. If you have a "free air" mount, like on a trike, you could in most cases just remove your 582, bolt your Victor 2 on and have the engine changed over the day...About the exhaust.. One of the reasons you get high power is the tuned exhaust pipes, Yes, exhaust pipes. And yes, the installation of the 2 pipes, rather impressive, can create some concerns... But if I can do it, anyone can... What you don't see in detail on the picture below is that the rear attachment of the pipes can extend downwards if pushed by the (traditional bungee) landing gear. However, Simonini is aware of the double pipes being a potential issue so they propose a single pipe system as well now, much like the one for 582. You will loose a little power but with the 100 HP version you can afford that (or take the 110 HP version...). But having the pipes end behind you, rather than in front of you, is - sound level wise - nice. The belly is also much cleaner than before... Ed, I'm not sure what you meant by "other stuff"... I reused my radiators and radiator mounts, changed nothing. I had to make a small "bump" on the belly of the cowling but other than that... no "other stuff"... Edited 24 Nov 2017 by FredStork 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 Great info Fred. Looks like with that exhaust you would want to use front radiators instead of a belly radiator? EDMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 Great info Fred. Looks like with that exhaust you would want to use front radiators instead of a belly radiator? EDMOYes, and that is what I have (had already). Depending on how your belly radiator is mounted you might have to adjust it, maybe slide it a little to the side to get out of the way for the double pipes. I don't think belly radiator is a showstopper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 Nov 2017 Great info Fred. Looks like with that exhaust you would want to use front radiators instead of a belly radiator? EDMOYes, and that is what I have (had already). Depending on how your belly radiator is mounted you might have to adjust it, maybe slide it a little to the side to get out of the way for the double pipes. I don't think belly radiator is a showstopper.Agree - Maybe a shield to deflect exhaust heat in area in front of belly radiator? EDMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2017 I was just watching some videos I took last winter when I went flying with a guy from Pensecola Fl. He has a Kitfox 4 XL with a 503 in it. Really amazing how well that plane performed on just 52 HP. It was probably 65 above, near sea level, and it took 10 seconds to lift off with maybe 15 gallons of fuel and our at least 400 lbs of weight. One section of video showed the panel, and turning about 5700 rpm, and in just a slight climb according to the VSI, we were doing 80 MPH. I still can't get over the lack of landing spaces there. Over the city, then out over the ocean bays. Going E into Alabama, we got into some farmland, and that was a bit more relaxing. Then back over a big bay, and then along the beach, cross another bay right in front of the Pensecola Naval airstation, then back over the city to land at Ferguson airfield. Brave I guess? Or very trusting of that little engine. I've had to many forced landings and know they can happen at any time. The point of the whole post though is a light Kitfox with a 503 performs pretty good. JImChuk 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2017 (Personally I'd trust a 503 far more than a 582. Just my opinion.) 2 people like this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 25 Nov 2017 I would agree with that comment. I'm not sure the 503 has enough hp or moving parts to really hurt itself. Very good engines Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
