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582 hot start problem

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Posted

A guy I know has been having problems with his 582.  Starts fine when cold, after landing and still hot, it acts like no spark and doesn't want to start. After it's cooled, takes off just fine.  When the symtoms were explained to the LEAF tech guy at Oshkosh last summer, he says you have a bad stator.  Interestingly, started having excessive noise in the radio when this problem started happening as well.  My question is this.  Being that his 582 has dual ignition, why would a bad stator cause both ignitions to loose spark in a case like this.  JImChuk

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Posted

Jim you ended up with a duplicate thread for some reason so I deleted the other one just in case you were looking for it. Has this person experimented with different plugs? I've landed after a 2 hr flight before and my plane wouldn't start back up. I put in one new plug in one cylinder and it fired right up. These NGK plugs are weird. I had better luck with the Iridium BR8EIX plugs. More money but it alleviated a lot of my starting issues I was having. Stators are weird animals and leaf is about the best source out there for info. In my experience with them they either work or they don't. Anything is possible with electrical gremlins though. I've been flying my plane off the battery for the past 8 months until I get time to swap out my stator for the second time......

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Posted

I had the same problem on my last cross country, I had no start, pulled one plug in each cylinder and saw they were coated with a light brown lead coating. I scraped the tips off with a feeler gauge and it started right up. I wonder if the lead coating insulates the spark a bit.

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Posted (edited)

Yep, and hopefully not the case, but as ya'll know, that is a typical low compression symptom as well.

Another rare one that I have had is a vacuum leak.  In my case a rip in the carb boot to motor.

Edited by Yamma-Fox

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Posted

Hello everyone:

I am the guy Jim is talking about... During this past Summer, I started getting this increasingly annoying thing where the engine would not start after a 40 min flight. Landing for fuel became an issue cause I knew I would not be able to start the engine back up.  As C5Engineers mentioned... I have tried the original plugs BR8ES and the BPR9ES.

One of the things I noticed in the past was that after some cranking and no spark... I would remove the lowest spark plug and it would now be covered in oil... So I was flooding the engine.  (I can only take that spark plug off without having to remove the cowling off ).,, A couple times I ended up removing the cowling at a remote airport... removing the spark plugs cleaning them up, heating them with a lighter to dry them up, leaving them out for 5 minutes to cool a bit and then put them back up... Then being able to start the engine again. (I have to say that I may have been at fault on the oil since I poured the oil into the tank prior to fueling since I didn't have a way to pre-mix at the time)

I killed my battery once and ended up hand propping the plane (until my arms almost fell off).. But eventually got it back on. Since then.. I make sure I charge my battery for at least a couple hours before I go out. There was an instance where I would crank for a few seconds and get a spark but no start... So That time I cranked for about 10 seconds until it managed to start.  Needless to say... It is annoying.

This past Summer I went to Oshkosh, and as I was explaining this to a guy from LEAF, he stopped me even before I finished explaining and said... "It is your stator, it's starting to go bad, you need to replace it... Once it heats up it tends to not produce a spark and you have to let it cool..." 

 

Right about the same time this issue started to be obvious ... I started getting a terrible amount to static noise on my radio... to the point of not being able to listen to my local tower when I am even 6 miles out. needless to say listen to weather 10 miles out or any airport for that matter.

One time... I was doing my run up and the radio was already noisy... and when I turned off one of my mags the noise went away... Turned it back on and there it was again... That is how I knew something with the ignition was the culprit... I have shielded the Ducati mags, the spark plug wires, changed the spark plug caps. Installed a 2ftx2ft Ground plane to the negative side of the antenna, shielded the RG-58. You name it... I have done it.

 

Well.. There is a more detailed version of the story...

 

Hiroshi Takeuchi

N5085Y Avid Flyer B 582 IVO three blade

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Posted

Hot engine start trouble is a classic low compression symptom.  Ive seen it on a few 2 strokes.

I hope that is not the problem, but it's easy to rule out by doing a hot engine compression check.  Most all compression guages are suspect IMO, so use the same guage on a different hot engine that is a known good runner and compare values.

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Posted

If you do end up replacing your stator I got a new in the box one for $550 from Rotax Rick. They are over $800 from Rotax dealers. 

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Posted

  Isn't it crazy the prices they get for these parts....  New piston 220, one ring 60,  other one 90.  But I guess if they have it and you need it, they can charge what they want.... and they do!  JImChuk

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Posted

  Isn't it crazy the prices they get for these parts....  New piston 220, one ring 60,  other one 90.  But I guess if they have it and you need it, they can charge what they want.... and they do!  JImChuk

It's stupid...I used to rebuild the whole top end of my 250CC motocross bike with a Wiseco piston for under $100 and that was piston, ring, and gaskets. Snomo stuff is way cheaper too.

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Posted

Has anyone tried rewinding one? By LEAFs comment, it sounds like they suffer insulation breakdown.

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Posted

Has anyone tried rewinding one? By LEAFs comment, it sounds like they suffer insulation breakdown.

Someone on here recently did just that unsuccessfully.

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