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kitfox 2

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Posted (edited)

Any ski pilots out there?

Edited by zadwit

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Posted (edited)

I am looking at buying a kitfox 2 with a blown 582 engine. The water pump shaft dont turn. It is a greyhead engine and the sellers says it is at TBO and needs the crankshaft replaced.

I realized if metal damaged the rotary valve area of the crankcase and cylinders, the engine is probably junk and not worth fixing...The rest of the plane looks not too bad and it is reasonably close to me....He wants 8000 for it... seems like a lot. Has a 3 blade wood prop and bush gear with coil springs... both of which are ho hum to me......just trying to decide.

Depends on condition of rest of plane.  Bush gear and prop are worth something, and engine core might be worth something for rebuilding.  The 2-smoke guys know more about that than I do.  Being close is an asset too.   Can you make lower offer, or is he firm on price?   Planes dont sell good in winter.    EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

The only reason the waterpump shaft does not turn is the brass gear is toast.  That is not a death blow to the engine and is easily replaced.  The brass gear only gets that way if a seal was leaking or he got air into the RV cavity.  I know this firsthand.  8k seems pretty steep to me.

:BC:

 

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Posted

Too much $ for a two with a blown motor. Better deals to be had. 

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Posted

OK Thanks. THe seller came down to $7000 but he is firm there so I am not sure but will probably pass. THe plane is on Barnstormers and can also be see flying on youtube

"Kitfox II field landing"

The seller said he paid 12,000 for the plane, however he kept the Grove MLG and installed coil spring bush gear. And now the engine is blown....

He bought a Kitfox IV and put the grove gear on it....

 

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Posted

This is a youtube video  of a Kitfox 2 flying. 5000 rpm= 85 mph! That seems pretty good for a 582 rotax. Is this the normal cruise RPM and airspeed speed for a KF 2?

 

Thanks, Mark

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Posted

Also where can one buy a verneir thottle like the one in this plane?????

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Posted (edited)

This is a youtube video  of a Kitfox 2 flying. 5000 rpm= 85 mph! That seems pretty good for a 582 rotax. Is this the normal cruise RPM and airspeed speed for a KF 2?

 

Thanks, Mark

About typical from what I have heard with 582.  Seems like the undercambered wings of Avid & Kitfox hit a 90 mph wall that the Kitfox 4 and later can exceed.   Vernier throttle at Aircraft Spruce.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Thanks

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Posted

My kf2 532 cruised at 75.  85 wot.

I'm sure it wasnt the fastest one out there.

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Posted (edited)

Mine too.  Mostly depends on gear ratio and prop efficiency - 85 at 5K is probably as good as it gets - Some pull more rpms and gain little.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I don't see 85 at 5k.. either the ASI or the tach is a dreamometer.  I would say ASI is off if he is lifting off at 30 and climbing out like that.  5k on the RPM will get you 70 or so if your lucky!  6k gives me around 80 on the GPS and 90+ on the dreamometer ASI.

:BC:

 

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Posted (edited)

:):)

Edited by zadwit

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Posted (edited)

I was shown an old trick in Alaska years ago. WHen someone wants to sell their plane, the snip the static line to the airspeed under the dash. That way it vents static pressure from inside the plane and the airspeed always read fast at cruise.....I thought 5000 rpm and 85 seems a bit much......

Open door or window might add 5 mph.  Most likely, lying instruments - Very few Avids/Kitfoxes have static lines.  But in these slow planes, who cares about 5 or 10 mph, since winds will affect your groundspeed more than that.  I have cruised at 100 (Not in Kitfox) and watched cars outrun  me when speed limits were 55 - of course they may have been speeding?   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Does anyone know whos kitfox 2 is  in the video with the blue panel and 85 mph at 5000 rpm?????

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Posted

Does anyone know whos kitfox 2 is  in the video with the blue panel and 85 mph at 5000 rpm?????

I do. It belonged to my best buddy here in central North Carolina. I learned tailwheel in it, unofficially, since he wasn't a CFI. I probably scared him off from ever becoming one. I was in the process of building my model 4 and and he was kind and patient enough to teach me. After I soloed the Kitfox and got fairly decent with it he put me in his J3. I had a fair amount of time in both by the time I went to a CFI and made it legal with an official tailwheel endorsement. I had owned a nice Stits covered CGS Hawk with a 503 Rotax so I was pretty familiar with 2 stokes. I always suspected the airspeed was indicating fast. And some of you may have noticed the tach reading. Being familiar with 2 strokes I knew that the prop should have been pitched so it would be turning 6200 rpm or so on climbout. But the tach may have been off too because it performed so strong. Take off roll was short (count the seconds off for yourself) and climb was strong. It sure sounded like it was turning higher than it was reading. I even kept it in my hanger after I sold my Hawk that I owned for 15 years. I flew it regularly and it was a good trainer to prepare my for my Model 4. It had 21 inch Nanco's and flew very nice. I flew it off pavement a lot and I never had any problem. I remember my first pavement landing with it. I was pretty nervous since I had heard the stories of how unforgiving pavement was since I had only landed it on grass. I don't think I even heard the tires chirp. It was a great little airplane. It was still in North Carolina with its new owner and doing good the last time I knew. I'll never be able to repay my friend who helped me tame the tailwheel, handed his plane over to me to fly all I wanted and keep in my hanger. He helped me finish my Model 4, helped me haul it to the airport and was there for moral support when I test flew it the 1st time. He was also my 1st passenger. Few people will ever be so blessed as to have a friend like that.  

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Posted

Thanks for the info... I am looking at KF2 but have heard horror stories from some about ground looping and the tail being too small etc.......

I can fly it on gravel but was wondering about asphalt and how they handle on pavement... I know you have to pay attention and stay on top of it.... 

Anyway thanks again for the info.. It looked like a great flyers.....

 

Mark

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Posted

Thanks for the info... I am looking at KF2 but have heard horror stories from some about ground looping and the tail being too small etc.......

I can fly it on gravel but was wondering about asphalt and how they handle on pavement... I know you have to pay attention and stay on top of it.... 

Anyway thanks again for the info.. It looked like a great flyers.....

 

Mark

Hey Mark. Yea, I have heard the horror stories too about Avids and early model Kitfoxes. The one I flew did handle a lot different from anything I had flown. The takeoffs and landings are no different than any other taildragger but it does handle different in flight. I always had to keep a watch on the ball to make coordinated turns, that "adverse yaw" thing we've heard so much about. I've made the statement many time that it's just as happy to fly sideways as straight. The J3 is a piece of cake by comparison. Coordinated turns seem very natural and easy in a Cub. I understand it's the flaperons on the early models, the ratio between up and down, that caused the adverse yaw. The rudder is actually pretty strong. I really think they're a pretty easy plane to land. The key is to always touch down straight. Look over the nose on landing and keep your sight picture off at a distance. It's easy, as the nose starts to rise in the flare, to sight down the side of the nose, which is tapered. If you're not careful, this will cause you to crab and when you touch down, oh well, you can imagine.If you land straight, it'll stay straight. The early models just take some getting used to. A Cessna only pilot would probably think they fly horribly.. They're not bad but they are different. They just take some getting used to. The later models are much more civilized. My Model 4 is much more "pilot friendly" but no more fun than the 2 I flew. I almost think the 2 was an easier plane to land well, since it lands so much slower, than my 4.  James Thomas

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Posted

Thanks for the info. This is what I need . Most aircraft builders make sure they have "freise" ailerons. This means the aileron travels up more than down to help reduce adverse yaw.

Do you remember the N number of that KF 2 you flew???? maybe I can contact the current owner and see what prop he has, tire size strut fairings???? etc....I like the video which show sparkling performance......

Im going to look at a KF 2 with a blown engine this week sometimes....The seller came down to 7000 still a bit much but there is just nothing else or sale. Most are 20K or more. I will have to rebuild or replace the 582 in this model 2. I know it has two 6 gallon wing tanks, a 3 blade wood GSC prop, bush gear, other than that its a stock plane. The seller bought a KF4 with a 912..

Mark

 

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Posted

Thanks for the info. This is what I need . Most aircraft builders make sure they have "freise" ailerons. This means the aileron travels up more than down to help reduce adverse yaw.

Do you remember the N number of that KF 2 you flew???? maybe I can contact the current owner and see what prop he has, tire size strut fairings???? etc....I like the video which show sparkling performance......

Im going to look at a KF 2 with a blown engine this week sometimes....The seller came down to 7000 still a bit much but there is just nothing else or sale. Most are 20K or more. I will have to rebuild or replace the 582 in this model 2. I know it has two 6 gallon wing tanks, a 3 blade wood GSC prop, bush gear, other than that its a stock plane. The seller bought a KF4 with a 912..

Mark

 

Yea, that aileron mixer change on the Model 4 was a drastic improvement. I'm not constantly "chasing the ball" any more. I can find out the N number but I probably shouldn't post it. I can find out and text or e-mail it to you. It wouldn't bother me but some folks don't theirs made public. I didn't log my time in it since I didn't have the tailwheel endorsement at the time. I guess I could have and just not made mention that it was a tailwheel. That was along the time (grace period) that owners of "fat, 2 place ultralights" were transitioning them  over to light sport. I'm probably telling too much. I remember it had the 3 blade GSC prop, a standard bungie gear and 21 inch Nanco's. I don't remember about the strut fairings. $7000 doesn't sound too far off, especially if the engine can be overhauled. I'd give Rotax Rick a call and talk to him. I don't have any idea what it cost to overhaul one these days but even if it's $5000 you'd still only have $12000 invested. That's assuming everything else is good. In my opinion, $12000 is getting toward the top of the price range for a basic Model 2, maybe a little more if it's extra nice and well equipped. Having a newly rebuild, updated to blue head 582 spec would be much more desirable than paying $12000 for a Model 2 with a running but mid time engine that you know nothing about.   James Thomas   

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Posted

Ok, your too honest!! Well I dont need the n number... I just wanted to know what prop and wheels so it sounds like it was pretty much a stock plane...

Tony at twisted metal racing in Saskawsan canada said if I overhaul this engine, to install a "99" serires crankshaft and rotary cross shaft. They have i mprovements one of which is a wider gear that drives the waterpump/rotary valve shaft. I guess if it cost too much to overhaul or approachs 5K Ill just buy a new blue head....

The main reason Im looking at this plane is it is only 100 miles from me. It has bush gear with coil springs so the gear is wider and several folks say it makes it easier to fly but I am also aware that if the coil spring bottom out, the frame is at risk of being bent .. I see some of the guys are going with longer travel coil springs and leni in Alaska did this and so far has not had any trouble... I dont plan on any rough off airport landing but sometimes you hit something yhou didnt see....anhyway dont worry about the N number....

what are you flying now????

 

Mark

 

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Ok, your too honest!! Well I dont need the n number... I just wanted to know what prop and wheels so it sounds like it was pretty much a stock plane...

Tony at twisted metal racing in Saskawsan canada said if I overhaul this engine, to install a "99" serires crankshaft and rotary cross shaft. They have i mprovements one of which is a wider gear that drives the waterpump/rotary valve shaft. I guess if it cost too much to overhaul or approachs 5K Ill just buy a new blue head....

The main reason Im looking at this plane is it is only 100 miles from me. It has bush gear with coil springs so the gear is wider and several folks say it makes it easier to fly but I am also aware that if the coil spring bottom out, the frame is at risk of being bent .. I see some of the guys are going with longer travel coil springs and leni in Alaska did this and so far has not had any trouble... I dont plan on any rough off airport landing but sometimes you hit something yhou didnt see....anhyway dont worry about the N number....

what are you flying now????

 

Mark

 

I'm glad I could answer some of your questions. If you know a good A&P, familiar with this type airplane, it might be a good idea to have another set of eyes look it over. I have a good friend that's an A&P who's a real stickler for little details. He does my annuals. He's a pain but I like that he's so thorough that I have complete confidence that it's right when he's done. Better to find before you buy any repairs or past damage. I think that wide bush gear is a big plus. That model 2 was prone to get up on one wheel pretty easy in a crosswind. I have a model 4 that I'm extremely happy with. I was the 3rd owner of the kit that was 1st bought in 1995. The original owner ordered every option including the trailer. It has all the Speedster options, the airfoil tail feathers, radiator fairing, Grove gear, 22 inch Dessers and a Kiev prop. It does have the long wing. I have the 912ul. I couldn't be any more pleased with it. I finished it and flew it the 1st time in November 2015. I'll try to figure out how to post a picture. I forgot to mention that I have the full bubble doors and full Lexan turtle deck. LOVE IT! James Thomas 

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