Avif vs. KitFox actual versions comparison

6 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi everybody,

I am wondering if somebody is able to make sort of comparison of actual versions of these birds regarding the most important differences.

There are many of them here in Europe so maybe even more it is sometimes complicated to recognize what aircraft i can see to fly. I understand that there are differences based on the age/release time, modifications etc. but still, I'd like to know from somebody flying both of them where are basic differences and what is simply nearly the same. Both of them are real STOL, both were born in Idaho (does make sense :) ) so maybe what refinements and why were done on them and what are real differences...

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Posted (edited)

Jenki,  I am sure you will get some info from the Avid pilots.  I have never flown an Avid with the full-length wings, but have flown the Kitfox 1 & 2 models, and believe that there is little difference in flying them.  To compare all of these would require writing a book.  One book that has been written and is available from Kitfox is "KITFOX PILOTS GUIDE" by Edward Downs which gives lots of information on the changes of different models and how to fly them.  I have a copy that I could sell to you for $25.  Basically, they are all flown with your feet working the pedals on the first models of each brand. 

I know that Jim Chuk, "1avidflyer" has flown both the Avid and Kitfox planes.

The change in the F7A parts on the Avid MkIV and controls change on the Kitfox 4 Classic giving differential ailerons helped control the adverse yaw and made them easier to fly.  The new Riblett airfoil on the Kitfox 4 Classic gave faster cruise and about the same takeoff performance than the undercambered wings of the earlier models. 

If I am correct, the original Avid Flyer model A with the Cayuna engine was advertised with a gross weight of 750 lbs, and each model increased gross weight by about 100 lbs, starting with a 100 lb increase when they went to the Rotax engines.  The Kitfox 1 started with gross weight of 850 lbs and increased the same amounts as models became heavier and stronger, up to a gross weight of 1200 lbs.  After the models MkIV and Classic 4 the planes were all larger and heavier birds.  Hope this helps a little.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO
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Posted

I guess I'll add a bit more to it.  The Avid came first, the Kitfox 1 was a copy with some changes of the Avid A model.  Avid A - Avid mk iv models all had undercambered wings, standard length on them was just under 30'.  Kitfox 1 - 3 models had undercambered wings as well and wingspan was almost 32'.  Both Avid and Kitfoxes had flat bottomed flaperons.  Kitfox 4 and later have a nearly flat bottom wing and larger asimetrical (curved top and bottom) flaperons.  As was mentioned, the Kitfox 4 uses different control assemblies for the flaperons to minimize adverse yaw, also, I believe it's 9" longer between the tail and the wing then earlier models.  They also used aluminum pieces that rivet to the rear of the wing rib for the flaperon hangars, the earlier Kitfoxes and Avids extended the rib tails out of the wing, and the flaperons hung off of them.  Very first Kitfoxes didn't have them, but very soon Kitfox went to the round cowl with bumps on it, as if there was a radial engine inside it.  At first glance, that is probably the first thing that will tell you it's a Kitfox.  JImChuk

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Posted

Thank you very much for such quick answers.

Well, this is technical part. What I understand is that Kitfox was aiming to higher performance based on bigger aircraft, higher gross weight. But step by step Avid went to the similar way as well.

Now, what are differences regarding performance, handling etc.

Sorry that I am asking to much questions but is better to ask to have more clear picture. And here I can find really huge number of experienced pilots and builders.

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Posted (edited)

They all fly about the same - biggest difference is visability and control on the ground between tail draggers and nose draggers.    The make and model number will be on the data plate.  EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

I would add this to the mix.  My Kitfox 1 gets off the ground quicker than the Avid MK IV did.  But then it weighs 85 lbs less and had 2' extra wing.  Both had adverse yaw, but if you lead with the rudder, and use the slip/skid indicator, you get used to it.  They are both short coupled and therefor are a bit squirley on the ground.  The Kitfox with the round cowl is harder to see over both on the ground and in the air.  JImChuk

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