Castering Nose Wheel


23 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi,

I'm looking for leads to acquire a catering nose wheel assembly for my Avid Flyer Speedwing.  Just getting tired of the tied rod steering assembly and the pivoting nose wheel seems unstable, is prone to shimmy, and like to try to turn 180 during taxi.  Also concerned about the feedback forced into the pedal assembly.

 

The first two pics is my current set up. before and after the assembly snapped after three hours of flying.

 

The next set of pics is what I am looking for.  I'm sure if I could get the wheel assemble, having a local welder put it on my nose tube would be easy.

Where can I find this assembly?

Does anyone have any experience or tips on a trailing link castering nose wheel?

Are there any issues moving the front portion of the three wheel base rear a bit?  Stability?

 

Here are the specs on the steering tie rod (that broke) and nose tube:

Push-Pull Tube Part # from Avid:

CLG 21  Forked Connector for nosegay steering

CLG 20  Push-Pull tube for nose gear steering

 

Bolt through nose wheel tube: AN4-27, or 1/4”,2 drilled end with castle nut and pin

 

Push-pull rod =  0.37” thick, 5” long, 7.5” eye to eye on ball sockets

 

Ball sockets = AN3 or 3/16” bolt or .1875

 

Nose wheel tube =  1 3/8” or 35.08mm thick

 

  

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Posted (edited)

Your Post was put in the wrong category, but I will answer it anyway - Maybe an administrator can move these?

"Are there any issues moving the front portion of the three wheel base rear a bit?  Stability?"

I have some info about that in one of my books - the more angle from main to nosewheel, the more chance of flipping over to one side - in other words, the shorter the triangle from mains to nosewheel, the less stabile it will be.   The Avid is an already short triangle, so you don't want to shorten it more.   The Kitfox / RV / Grumman type nose gear puts the castering wheel farther forward than the original Avid.   EDMO 

 

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Your Post was put in the wrong category, but I will answer it anyway - Maybe an administrator can move these?

"Are there any issues moving the front portion of the three wheel base rear a bit?  Stability?"

I have some info about that in one of my books - the more angle from main to nosewheel, the more chance of flipping over to one side - in other words, the shorter the triangle from mains to nosewheel, the less stabile it will be.   The Avid is an already short triangle, so you don't want to shorten it more.   The Kitfox / RV / Grumman type nose gear puts the castering wheel farther forward than the original Avid.   EDMO 

 

Thanks EDMO.  Do you happen to know where I can get one of these nose wheel assemblies?

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Posted (edited)

Your Post was put in the wrong category, but I will answer it anyway - Maybe an administrator can move these?

"Are there any issues moving the front portion of the three wheel base rear a bit?  Stability?"

I have some info about that in one of my books - the more angle from main to nosewheel, the more chance of flipping over to one side - in other words, the shorter the triangle from mains to nosewheel, the less stabile it will be.   The Avid is an already short triangle, so you don't want to shorten it more.   The Kitfox / RV / Grumman type nose gear puts the castering wheel farther forward than the original Avid.   EDMO 

 

Thanks EDMO.  Do you happen to know where I can get one of these nose wheel assemblies?

Unless you can find one on Barnstormers or some site, I guess Kitfox would be the only place to buy one?  They were $1500 the last I heard.  I made mine with Walmart mountain bike parts I got out of a trash bin!   ;<)  It is not finished or tested - I still need to weld the side support tubes on it.  EdMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted (edited)

You should be able to purchase an RV6A assembly (the one of your pics with the unfinished wheel pant). That's what I have on mine (including Avid drawings for same). I'm planning on taking mine off later this year to install Grove taildragger gear I purchased. Thought about selling it but I'm kinda thinking of hanging on to it as a boost should I sell in the future when the Bearhawk is done. Although I'm really falling in love with this bird. Thinking about the possibility of the enclosed trailer route for retirement ( or pre-retirement) travels... 

 

As Ed mentioned, it also provides stabilizing compared to the original style Avid nose gear as it puts the wheel farther forward.

20170716_182017.jpg

Edited by marcusofcotton

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Posted

The castering nose wheels are really nice. I had one for years. However, the original milkstool wheel isn't bad. works real well with low tire pressure to absorb shock and it is the lightest of all options. Something is wrong for you to be breaking the stock setup. 

1) How long can you hold the nosewheel off before it dropping to the ground?

2) What is your weight and balance?

3) Can you easily taxi around at jogging speed while holding the nosewheel up in balance? if you cannot do this you probably need 10 lb of lead in the tail.

Chris

 

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Posted (edited)

I keep going back to your original post before the RV type nose gear subject got started:  The bent tube must have been by a lot of excessive force on the pedals and was probably not bent that way by any normal external force on the nosewheel - Either there was some mis-handling or someone has strong legs!   Secondly,  the 3/16 threaded connector seems too light for that part - I would have used a 1/4-28 threaded tube connector like is used on the elevator push-pull tube which does not have that much pressure on it.  I think if you replace your bent & broken parts you should not have any more problems with the nose gear.  I would also inspect the rudder cables and attachments for too much force before flight.   EDMO

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

You should be able to purchase an RV6A assembly (the one of your pics with the unfinished wheel pant). That's what I have on mine (including Avid drawings for same). I'm planning on taking mine off later this year to install Grove taildragger gear I purchased. Thought about selling it but I'm kinda thinking of hanging on to it as a boost should I sell in the future when the Bearhawk is done. Although I'm really falling in love with this bird. Thinking about the possibility of the enclosed trailer route for retirement ( or pre-retirement) travels... 

 

As Ed mentioned, it also provides stabilizing compared to the original style Avid nose gear as it puts the wheel farther forward.

20170716_182017.jpg

Marcus,  Your nose-wheel is exactly the setup I'd like to get. I'll start looking for RV6A castering nose wheel assemblies.  Curious about the nose wheel tube and how it will fit into the existing nose wheel tube in the Avid frame.  Would you be able to provide some close up pics of your nose wheel assembly and the tube from the inside and out and perhaps some measurements?  Any issues with taxi or control on takeoff or landing?  Steve

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Posted

I keep going back to your original post before the RV type nose gear subject got started:  The bent tube must have been by a lot of excessive force on the pedals and was probably not bent that way by any normal external force on the nosewheel - Either there was some mis-handling or someone has strong legs!   Secondly,  the 3/16 threaded connector seems too light for that part - I would have used a 1/4-28 threaded tube connector like is used on the elevator push-pull tube which does not have that much pressure on it.  I think if you replace your bent & broken parts you should not have any more problems with the nose gear.  I would also inspect the rudder cables and attachments for too much force before flight.   EDMO

EDMO,  Great recommendations.  The chrome tube seems to have been bent on purpose for better fit from the nose tube to the pedal base.  I agree the 3/16 is way too weak.  I will look to reinforce this control tube with 1/4" or just make it a solid tube once the length is set.  I will also check the rudder cables and attachment points carefully again.  Steve

That bottle does not have to be airtight.  You start out with the radiators full of coolant.  As the coolant warms and expands, it gets pushed into the overflow bottle.  When it cools back down the coolant contracts, and it is sucked back into the radiator system.   No need to be airtight.  in fact, if it was airtight, you would pressurize the bottle when coolant tried to force it's way in.  The hose going into the bottle should reach nearly to the bottom so it doesn't suck air.   Just like on all the newer cars that use an overflow tank.  JImChuk

Your Post was put in the wrong category, but I will answer it anyway - Maybe an administrator can move these?

"Are there any issues moving the front portion of the three wheel base rear a bit?  Stability?"

I have some info about that in one of my books - the more angle from main to nosewheel, the more chance of flipping over to one side - in other words, the shorter the triangle from mains to nosewheel, the less stabile it will be.   The Avid is an already short triangle, so you don't want to shorten it more.   The Kitfox / RV / Grumman type nose gear puts the castering wheel farther forward than the original Avid.   EDMO 

 

Thanks EDMO.  Do you happen to know where I can get one of these nose wheel assemblies?

Unless you can find one on Barnstormers or some site, I guess Kitfox would be the only place to buy one?  They were $1500 the last I heard.  I made mine with Walmart mountain bike parts I got out of a trash bin!   ;<)  It is not finished or tested - I still need to weld the side support tubes on it.  EdMO

Cool.  Could you send a pic or specs on your castering nosewheel design?  Think I'm gonna make one and try it too :)

 

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Posted

The castering nose wheels are really nice. I had one for years. However, the original milkstool wheel isn't bad. works real well with low tire pressure to absorb shock and it is the lightest of all options. Something is wrong for you to be breaking the stock setup. 

1) How long can you hold the nosewheel off before it dropping to the ground?

2) What is your weight and balance?

3) Can you easily taxi around at jogging speed while holding the nosewheel up in balance? if you cannot do this you probably need 10 lb of lead in the tail.

Chris

 

Chris,  Thanks for the questions.  I haven't noticed any issues getting the nose wheel off the ground.  It seems to rise and fall easily with about 15-20 mph of forward movement.  I tend to treat every takeoff or landing like a soft field just out of habit. My W&B is 491 lbs and 11.69 empty and 878lbs / 13.19 with full fuel and me on board.

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Posted

Steve,  I don't think the RV - Kitfox nose gear will fit anything you now have on the Avid - There were two types of these - one attached to fittings welded to the front frame, and the other attached to the engine mount.   I will look for a photo or two of my homemade gear, but as I said it is unfinished and untested.  You might have a better idea.  EDMO

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Posted

Steve,  I don't think the RV - Kitfox nose gear will fit anything you now have on the Avid - There were two types of these - one attached to fittings welded to the front frame, and the other attached to the engine mount.   I will look for a photo or two of my homemade gear, but as I said it is unfinished and untested.  You might have a better idea.  EDMO

Thanks EDMO.  Sounds good.

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Posted (edited)

Here is photo of my nose gear - As I said, "Not Finished' - The side brace tubes are not welded on it - they bolt to fuselage at lower front corners, and the spring probably has to be changed to a heavier one, and the pivot tube shortened.  The angle of the pivot tube to the ground is 5 degrees.   It may need a shimmy dampener?   It has to be clear of your engine.  Buying one is a lot easier.  EDMO

post-399-0-32559800-1409429768_thumb.jpg

Edited by EDMO

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Posted

Or you could do something like this with your existing nose gear. I welded a pair of tabs onto the cross tube for the left rudder pedal, lowered the attach point for the push-pull tube and eliminated the sharp angle that existed originally on the stock setup. I believe I got the info from a builder in the UK.

Jack 

119.JPG

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Posted

I can't tell you how this worked out because shortly after setting it up, I installed the conventional gear. The large hole below the rodend attach bolt on the cross-tube was drilled to allow access to the brake cylinder mount bolt.

Jack

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Posted

Steve, I'll try to get some pics soon, hopefully tonight. Thousands of aircraft out there with free castoring nosewheel. It is a bit different at first but you get used to it very quickly.

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Posted

Your w&b tells me you need 10-15 lb in the tail and your problems will be solved. Try it! Tape it to the handles or attach it any other way you can. You will be amazed.

chris

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Posted

Steve:

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Posted

Steve:

Marcus,  Thanks for the pics of the castering nose wheel mount. What type of metal is the tube made of?  Is it hollow?  Solid?  Could you send some pics close up of the wheel assembly around the tire?  Perhaps a side, front, and top down view?  Gonna try to have my machine shop replicate it. :)

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Posted

I'll try to get some pics after work tomorrow night. This is a Matco unit, you might give them a call, probably can buy complete for less money and the engineering is done. I don't know for sure if the spring section is solid or hollow, guessing solid, steel but unknown alloy.

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Posted

20180317_195101.thumb.jpg.a194cc86b9ef01Steve,  sorry I had spaced out getting these pics for you.

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Posted

Hi Mark,  I see the ski sitting on the floor in the second picture.  Aren't you flying the trike this winter?  JImChuk

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Posted

Yes, the ski is mounted on the trike in the first out position.

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