JB from NC

[JBflying 2]

Hi everyone. I just joined today in hopes of gaining some knowledge about the Kitfox and Avid. I don't currently own either of the two but I hope to get a Kitfox in the near future. I've been renting Cessnas and Pipers for the last 20 years and decided its about time I get my on airplane. I obtained my private pilot certificate in 2000, have a couple aviation degrees, and was in Marine Aviation for 20yrs. I'm hoping to get my tail wheel endorsement by this summer once this crazy weather lets up. I've looked at a lot of airplanes over the years while "dreaming" and the Kitfox seems like the perfect match for me. I see there are plenty of experienced flyers on this site so I think I came to the right place. I look forward to reading all the information here.

Thanks,

JB

Edited 23 Mar 2018 by JBflying
Typo on date, again

[akflyer 1427]

Welcome aboard JB.  You came to the right place if you want to hear it "told like it is" with the good and the bad points of these fine plane.  It amazes me what these little planes will do and how much fun they are to fly.

 

[JBflying 2]

It's definitely going to make for some long nights. I was reading for hours on Neloner's Kitfox 3 rebuild last night. Never knew mouse urine could keep my attention that long. lol Probably pick back up on it tonight so I can see how it turns out. 

[nlappos 413]

I wonder JB if you have compared the Avid Flyer to the Kitfox? In the earlier designs they are nearly identical, but due to name recognition, Kitfoxes cost considerably more. The KF design was an Avid, basically a controversial intellectual property escape allowed KF to use the Avid design, although later years the KF matured away (and later models are arguably worth more as a result).

My Avid Mark IV is a terrific tail dragger, almost 600 lbs of useful load, burns car gas and can be bought for $15k or so. I have seen equivilent KFs asking 25K or more.

Just a thought.

[JBflying 2]

nlappos,

My main reason for choosing the Kitfox over the Avid was simply to focus on one particular M/M so I could learn all the ins and outs and be more knowledgeable when it came time to purchase one. I think originally, the Avid is what led me to the Kitfox but I was able to find more information about the Kitfox. Since I don't have a lot of knowledge about either aircraft, the fact that Kitfox still has an operating website to get information from was a big factor in choosing the Kitfox. I couldn't make a technical argument against either aircraft at this point. They both appear to be great, reliable designs.

JB

[dholly 718]

Welcome JB. Just realize, even though there may be a company with Kitfox logos on the door today, they do not support the early KF1-3 models. They were more than willing to sell off the early model parts inventory received when purchasing the bankruptcy assets but that's it. Reality is that factory support is non-existent for both Avid and early Kitfox, and you will find this community can provide MUCH more information and support than the current company ever will. IMO, support for KF4-6 is quickly moving in the same direction too, despite the model 4 being one of the most popular Kitplanes ever sold. The new Kitfox Aircraft is laser focused on producing their successful model 7, particularly the high-margin S-LSA. Minimal or non-existent factory support is just life in the Experimental aircraft world (many kit companies have come and gone over the years) but, since you can do or fabricate anything you want, it's actually pretty liberating. Then again, if you're the kind of guy that prefers to pony up a big check in return for the convenience of immediate parts supply, perhaps the certified aircraft world will be more to your liking. I scored great deals on all of my Avid and KF kits because the original purchasers fancied themselves aircraft builders when all they really wanted to do was fly. Best of luck with your plans, we always like to see our community grow!

[EDMO 1078]

JB,  There is a new owner of Avid Aircraft trying to get the business restarted.  This may take some time, but he is on this site and is gearing up to make kits and parts.  Just something for you to consider if cheaper building/buying/flying than current Kitfox is your desire.  Kitfox outsold Avid in the early days, but you will probably find more current active Avid flyers on here than Kitfox.  EDMO

Edited 23 Mar 2018 by EDMO

[JBflying 2]

Thanks for the Info EDMO! That's great to hear.

[JBflying 2]

dholly, I'm not set in stone on a kitfox. I'm still exploring the possibilities. I may just as easily end up with an Avid. In fact an Avid IV may suit my needs better than the Kitfox offerings. I've turned wrenches on complex aircraft for many years (long before airplanes became an accessory item to Go Pros). I fixed many aircraft over the years that I never got to fly, so my wrench time outweighs my flight time by a good deal. So, with a little ("a lot") of help I'm sure I could build an Avid or Kitfox. But, due to various reasons I don't know if that is the best option for me right now. I have looked at many "unfinished' kits but if there is one area that I really need some knowledge on that would be it. Maybe I can pick your brain sometime. I have looked at kit aircraft that never made it to the airworthiness certification (experimental LSA) in various stages of build but couldn't get a straight answer from anyone, including several phone calls to the FAA, if they could still be issued an airworthiness certificate under experimental/homebuilt/51% rule ect. I know many people have purchased unfinished kits at bargain prices and completed them, but I also run across information stating that the build process must be thoroughly documented by the (sole?) builder to get the certification. I ran across some great deals but couldn't get the "paperwork" answers I was looking for. I don't have deep pockets so, I can't afford to purchase "a good deal" that can never legally fly. That is why I'm at the point of buying a certified, registered, flying Avif/Kitfox and then possibly building my own later down the road. Thanks for all the advice!

[EDMO 1078]

JB,  I am sure that Doug Holly can give you detailed info on getting a kit plane registered, but you do not have to be the "sole builder" to do that.  You need a bill of sale for the kit, some kind of documented information of how much, if any, has been done by other builders, (builder's logs and photos are best), and info if any part of it has been built by a commercial agency other than the original kit-maker, and your building logs and photos.  If the total "Amateur building" is at minimum 51% or greater, no matter how many "builders" were involved, then you should not have any problem registering it as the final builder/owner.

EDMO

Edited 25 Mar 2018 by EDMO