Kitfox/NSI

[Allen Sutphin 705]

Just acquired a Kitfox Model II with a Subrau/NSI engine. Aircraft has a fully loaded panel and with the engine package is a tank. Going to strip it and start over building it light. Engine has less than 200 hrs and looks like new. Going to unbolt the engine mount from the firewall, include radiator and engine gages plus prop. If anybody is in need of a complete FWF package.

[TJay 1041]

Hey awesome are those 200hrs from flying in that plane?

[Allen Sutphin 705]

Probably not. Engine still looks new so by the looks of it  probably doesn't have a hundred hours on it. Its just too heavy for a model II. I am going to sell the complete package including the gages and prop. It would work on a model 4 and up but not a I, II, or III. If I can't sell it to someone for a 701 or other kit that can handle it, I'll have a heck of an airboat for when the snow gets deep.

[Allen Sutphin 705]

NSI/Subaru engine went to its new home today. A guy picked it up for his pietenpol project to replace the corvair engine. Now to start rebuilding and reconfiguring the mountain fox to the way I want it.

[C5Engineer 1170]

Lucked out! I've been trying to sell my NSI FWF package for 10 years with no luck.

[1avidflyer 1983]

I have Allen's old one that came on my Kitfox 4 from Texas.  I should try to move that one down the road as well.  (Allen was the original builder of my Texas Kitfox 4 that I'm painting right now.)   JImChuk

[Bartman1959 12]

With everyone getting rid of their NSIs, where do you find a good used 912 UL so you don't have to spend the $20 something grand for a new one?

[Allen Sutphin 705]

I'd be very cautious of a used 912 unless I knew the engine and owner and he was honest. A lot of 912's have had prop strikes, which means a teardown. and the service advisories may have not been done. Especially the early ones. The NSI/Subaru engines are good engines, just a little on the heavy side for light aircraft.  I, myself, go for the lighter side, from experience a lighter airframe means less power needed, less fuel, better performance and handling. I learned in the age of a map, compass and watch to get from A to B. I understand some need more due to airspace reg's and restricted areas.  I plan on a two stroke engine for my model 2 in the 55 to 85 HP range. And if you spend a little time learning the in's and out's of a 2 stroke, you won't have any problems and a lot more money in your pocket. 95% of all 2 strokes don't fail, they are murdered by their owners!

[Bartman1959 12]

I'd be very cautious of a used 912 unless I knew the engine and owner and he was honest. A lot of 912's have had prop strikes, which means a teardown. and the service advisories may have not been done. Especially the early ones. The NSI/Subaru engines are good engines, just a little on the heavy side for light aircraft.  I, myself, go for the lighter side, from experience a lighter airframe means less power needed, less fuel, better performance and handling. I learned in the age of a map, compass and watch to get from A to B. I understand some need more due to airspace reg's and restricted areas.  I plan on a two stroke engine for my model 2 in the 55 to 85 HP range. And if you spend a little time learning the in's and out's of a 2 stroke, you won't have any problems and a lot more money in your pocket. 95% of all 2 strokes don't fail, they are murdered by their owners!

To be honest, I like the idea of a Subaru engine that can be rebuilt and or modified by your favorite auto mechanic.  I like the price of Subaru engines, and the fact that they are readily available.

[Bandit 286]

I'd be very cautious of a used 912 unless I knew the engine and owner and he was honest. A lot of 912's have had prop strikes, which means a teardown. and the service advisories may have not been done. Especially the early ones. The NSI/Subaru engines are good engines, just a little on the heavy side for light aircraft.  I, myself, go for the lighter side, from experience a lighter airframe means less power needed, less fuel, better performance and handling. I learned in the age of a map, compass and watch to get from A to B. I understand some need more due to airspace reg's and restricted areas.  I plan on a two stroke engine for my model 2 in the 55 to 85 HP range. And if you spend a little time learning the in's and out's of a 2 stroke, you won't have any problems and a lot more money in your pocket. 95% of all 2 strokes don't fail, they are murdered by their owners!

To be honest, I like the idea of a Subaru engine that can be rebuilt and or modified by your favorite auto mechanic.  I like the price of Subaru engines, and the fact that they are readily available.

You usually only see two types of Avids for sale, a speed wing and or a Subaru powered one.

[Bartman1959 12]

Really?  This ad is on wingswap.com   

1994 AVID Bandit

Boerne, Texas $22,000

AFTT: 873

SMOH: 583

STOL wing - Jabiru 2200 engine. 873TT airframe - 583TT engine. Electric elevator trim - Nav/Com - Xponder - Wheelen Strobes - Nav lights - 21" tires

[Allen Sutphin 705]

Going to ask for opinions before I make a final decision. A Kitfox model 2 built light, what engine would anyone recommend from their experience? I am leaning towards a Hirth 3202 55 hp two stroke, but question the performance with 55 hp. A 3002 80 hp is also in the short list but at 140 lbs it takes away from the 950 gross weight. The 3202 comes in around 100 lbs flying weight. A 582 is up pretty close the 80 hp in weight, though its a great engine.  I know or think the original model 2 had a 503 or 582 as a choice from the factory but that is here or there. Anybody that is flying a model 1, 2, or 3 with a 503 engine be willing to discuss the performance on the phone?  I hate to invest in a 55 hp engine and then find out its not enough oomph to it.  If one studies the power curve of the 3202, it, at  normal flight power has more torque and hp than the 3203 65 hp.  Thanks for at least considering this.

[1avidflyer 1983]

A friend of mine had the 3202 55 HP engine in his A model Avid.  My considerably heavier Avid with a 582 would fly circles around him.  He eventually put the 65 HP 3302 Hirth engine in it a year ago.  Sadly he only was able to fly it 4 times before he got to sick to fly and he passed away last December.  That is the A model Avid I parted out for his widow.  I ended up selling both engines, the 65 HP had only 6.2 hrs on it, and it sold for 2/3 of it's new price.  It did perform better than the 55 HP, but I'm not sure if it was as good as the 582 though.  It did seem a bit peaky, but the 55 HP one was also.  Kind of a long dead spot between real fast idle, and cruise rpm.  Add throttle, and nothing happens, till then it was like it would catch and jump up in rpm.  I did fly with a guy in Pennsecola that had a real light Kitfox 4 with a 503, and I was amazed how well it performed on those 52 HPs.  Course it was at sea level so that helps.  If it was me, I would go with a 582, and I'm not saying that just cause I have 2 of them just back from the shop and for sale.  582 will burn about 3 1/2GPH at a medium slow cruise that will give you about 75 MPH.  I think the 503 will give the same speeds but at a good bit higher RPM of course.  Take off and climb will be way better with the 582.  Only negative I can see is the extra weight for the liquid cooling.  And that's not all that much.  Total weight on the 582 should be about 130 lbs, radiator and coolant included.  JImChuk

[Allen Sutphin 705]

Thanks, Jim. Maybe I should put the 582 on the short list also.  With only so much money in the engine budget one has to choose wisely. The 0-100 that is coming on the market sounds good but isn't established just yet.  And cont parts are painted gold for a reason due to their prices.  I cut my A&P teeth on old 65 hp thru 0-200's but the weight puts them  out of the market for a model 2. Seems like the 582 is the go to standard engine for the older Avid's and Kitfoxes.

[1avidflyer 1983]

Another other option is an HKS engine, especially if one is satisfied with performance of a 503 or there abouts.  If the plane is light enough, it should be enough power.  Not as much as a 582, but at least as much as the 503.  Probably cost a good bit more then the two strokes though.  I've flown behind  a Jabiru in my Avid MK IV for 500 hrs, and it has worked good for me.  Better then a 582, especially in cruise, although I think the 912 will run circles around it.  It's flying weight is about the same as the 582.  Once again, more money then the 582 though.  JImChuk

[TJay 1041]

I love my Jabiru in the model 1.  Its alot harder to install due to the fact there isn't much info out there but I think its worth it.

used 582 with gearbox runs around $3500

used Jabiru runs about $4500

[Allen Sutphin 705]

 Haven't really considered the Jab engine. As always have heard some negative reports on them but that is true for any engine.  You know the story, my brother n law's friend's sister's husband had one and if failed several times.  I am going to wait till it is completed minus engine and weigh it to see how I stand. That may be the deciding factor as to what engine gets hung on the nose. At 950 gross, you don't have too much room to play with.