Cabin Heat

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

After doing a little research on the hoses needed to tap into the existing water hoses for my heater core I found that the heater hoses on the 582 are 22 mm (7/8). Most of you saw the recent post on the GT 500 Quicksilver crash where they determined the cause of the engine stoppage to be the lack of water in the system due to a leaking hose. I believe this was caused by using 1'' hose on a 22 mm inlet/outlet. When I was installing my radiators last summer I could not find 22 mm hose anywhere locally. I had to order it online from Pegasus Racing before finally finding an outlet locally. So now I have these cool 22 mm silicone heater hoses on my plane and now I need to tap into them. 1" x 1" x 5/8 will not work. There use to be a heater sold on Aircraft Spruce called the neat heater. It was a neat little set up but very expensive. Over $400 for the unit and and $250 for the kit to connect it to he plane. The kit amounted to a bunch of hose clamps, hose connectors, tee's, water shut off, switch and wiring harness. When I started this project I saved a few photos of the neat heater. One of the photos had some custom made aluminum tee's. it looks like they bought the aluminum connectors and had them tig welded so they were the correct size. 22 mm x 22 mm x 16 mm (7/8 x 7/8 x 5/8). 

My plan is to buy the components and fabricate some correct tee's for my system unless I can find someone who already makes these. So far not luck. 

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

I cant believe my luck!! I found the exact part I was going to buy pieces to make. Just under $20 a piece but I would have just as much or more into them if I had to buy and fabricate them myself. This company also sells other items for small heater systems. The company (UPI) sells Recreational Vehicle (Side by Side) heater and radiator supplies.

Edited 12 Dec 2018 by NorthIdahoAvidflyer

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

[akflyer 1427]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-LCD-Thermostat-Quiet-8000W-For-Trucks-Boat-Car-Trailer/323506755578?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D97d242f847534439bf18ad30737756a2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D351158629824%26itm%3D323506755578&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5a2c4a3e-fe79-11e8-8980-74dbd1802fe8|parentrq%3Aa5414bcb1670ad4b2ea3e812ffefdae7|iid%3A1

 

I am actually tempted to put one of these in the bird.  I have put one in a boat and I just got this one to put in my motorhome.  The put out good heat, don't draw much juice and will burn less than a gallon in 24 hrs running on high the entire time.  A lot of certified planes use the janitrol heaters that burn gasoline but I kind of like the idea of diesel or kerosene better than gas..

 

[Cloud Dancer 69]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-LCD-Thermostat-Quiet-8000W-For-Trucks-Boat-Car-Trailer/323506755578?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D97d242f847534439bf18ad30737756a2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D351158629824%26itm%3D323506755578&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5a2c4a3e-fe79-11e8-8980-74dbd1802fe8|parentrq%3Aa5414bcb1670ad4b2ea3e812ffefdae7|iid%3A1

 

I am actually tempted to put one of these in the bird.  I have put one in a boat and I just got this one to put in my motorhome.  The put out good heat, don't draw much juice and will burn less than a gallon in 24 hrs running on high the entire time.  A lot of certified planes use the janitrol heaters that burn gasoline but I kind of like the idea of diesel or kerosene better than gas..

 

At 8000w your going to notice the things working even in Alaska. What do they weigh?

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

The shipping weight of the 7KW is 18.74 pounds. That better be one heavy box.

[akflyer 1427]

I will be shaving a lot of weight off it as there is no real need for the long pipe runs etc.  Also don't need the muffler on it, just a straight pipe going out.  I think the 2KW would be more than enough as these things really do put out some good heat!  I could even mount it in a "belly pod" so its all self contained under the plane then just pipe in the heat under the seat.

 

[nlappos 413]

Some thoughts about that diesel heater:

1) The heat value makes no sense, at 0.24 Liters per hour max diesel flow, that would be right at 8000 btus. (diesel has 139,000 btu's per gallon, .24 liters is .06 gallons per hour. akflyer confirms this flow when he saw 1 gallon every 24 hours, that is about .05 gal per hour) . The claimed 8000 watts is about 27,000 btus.  Even so, I would bet the 8000 btus it really gives out is nice heat.

2) Putting heater, a flame source, in the cabin is near suicide, anything goes wrong and its toast.

3) Putting it right outside (like akflyer's belly pod), with a firewall between it and the cabin would be pretty safe.

I have the Avid "stock" heater funnel off the left radiator and it works well down to about 25F (all I've seen so far). If the water temp drops to 145 or 150, the heater falls off too. As a result I block my belly rad off (at 35 deg takeoff, I have it half blocked). Most important was lifting the top cowl and blocking all the area behind the firewall up to the windshield off so the drafts almost stop. I also sealed the door leading edges with stick-on door seal, works well.

Edited 15 Dec 2018 by nlappos

[akflyer 1427]

Some thoughts about that diesel heater:

1) The heat value makes no sense, at 0.24 Liters per hour max diesel flow, that would be right at 8000 btus. (diesel has 139,000 btu's per gallon, .24 liters is .06 gallons per hour. akflyer confirms this flow when he saw 1 gallon every 24 hours, that is about .05 gal per hour) . The claimed 8000 watts is about 27,000 btus.  Even so, I would bet the 8000 btus it really gives out is nice heat.

2) Putting heater, a flame source, in the cabin is near suicide, anything goes wrong and its toast.

3) Putting it right outside (like akflyer's belly pod), with a firewall between it and the cabin would be pretty safe.

I have the Avid "stock" heater funnel off the left radiator and it works well down to about 25F (all I've seen so far). If the water temp drops to 145 or 150, the heater falls off too. As a result I block my belly rad off (at 35 deg takeoff, I have it half blocked). Most important was lifting the top cowl and blocking all the area behind the firewall up to the windshield off so the drafts almost stop. I also sealed the door leading edges with stick-on door seal, works well.

its 8kw.. or 27000 BTU.  The flame is in a sealed combustion chamber just like the janitrol heaters in lots of other aircraft.  I have the scoop on the back of one rad from (mkIV) putting the air straight into the cabin, I also have a 2" hose coming off the other rad into a heat muff and coming into the cabin.  I can fly pretty comfortable down to around -30 but only if I keep the RPM pretty high.  When I was flying with a buddy who was in his Tcrate I had to pull the RPMs back to around 5200 and it was COLD.  At any rate, I am going to order another one for the plane, probably get the 2KW heater for it as that is what we put in a buddies 24' boat and it keeps the cabin nice and toasty on it.

 

[nlappos 413]

ak, they say it is 8000 watts, which is 27,000 btus, but the  heat is produced by burning the fuel. You agreed with their fuel consumption number, which is stated at .24 liters per hour (about .06 gallon per hour.) Diesel fuel has 139,000 btus in each gallon, .06 gallon has .06 x 139000 = 8340 btus. Even the Chinese cant make heat from air.

I guarantee either the fuel consumption number is wrong, or the heat it produces is wrong, and you said it burned a bit less than a gallon a day, which agrees with 8000 btu.

I bet they have a typo and like it because it sounds better. I have seen them do this with electrical stuff, and computer stuff too. I am not saying they like to exaggerate, don't get me wrong.......

[Buckchop 479]

I like the idea of a heater mounted under the seat ur butt keep warm to boot.  But im still 50/50 on the deisel heater good idea but another thing to deal with, between the two probably not alot of weight difference? who knows whats best, but think id mount a water heater under the seat and duct it out into the cockpit be an easy way to get ur water lines hooked up right from radiator. 

[akflyer 1427]

on our planes the lifes blood is the coolant.  The more plumbing we install the more potential leaks we introduce.  Not to mention that plumbing gets heavy fast.  I took 2 heater cores out of the inside of my plane when I got it.  I think I would rather deal with a the diesel heater I have never had troubles or issues with versus more potential ways to shut down the engine.  small leaks over time are easy to not notice.

Say what one wants about the fuel consumption on the heater and the BTU output.  Burner technology is a wonderful thing and one can be made to burn hotter or cooler.  Yes gallon for gallon is has XX BTU in it, however, the actual heat output can vary greatly.  Dump a gallon of diesel in a bucket and light it off, then run the same amount through and efficient combustion chamber.  Tell me if you get the exact same amount of heat off it.  I already know the answer and I already have first hand experience with the amount of heat I get off these.

 

[akflyer 1427]

Do  a search for janitrol heaters... they are in lots of certified aircraft and are flying every day without blowing up... they also only seem to work about 1/3rd of the time   My buddy has a lake with one in it that is not working and its almost 3k to replace it.  Right now he is flying with a 12v ceramic heater in his plane...

 

[nlappos 413]

One helicopter I flew had a Janitrol, outside next to the engine. It was terrific, hot air by the boatload.

[Cloud Dancer 69]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8KW-12V-Diesel-Air-Heater-LCD-Thermostat-Quiet-8000W-For-Trucks-Boat-Car-Trailer/323506755578?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D97d242f847534439bf18ad30737756a2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D351158629824%26itm%3D323506755578&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5a2c4a3e-fe79-11e8-8980-74dbd1802fe8|parentrq%3Aa5414bcb1670ad4b2ea3e812ffefdae7|iid%3A1

 

I am actually tempted to put one of these in the bird.  I have put one in a boat and I just got this one to put in my motorhome.  The put out good heat, don't draw much juice and will burn less than a gallon in 24 hrs running on high the entire time.  A lot of certified planes use the janitrol heaters that burn gasoline but I kind of like the idea of diesel or kerosene better than gas..

 

I watched an interesting dissection of one of these style heaters. I would have loved to have one of these in my 1967 VW bug I had decades ago.

Link here to watch the video:  https://youtu.be/9YthaCqkMOs

 

[Matthewtanner 44]

If anyone is interested the $50 eBay heater works great.

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

MatthewTanner, could you post photos of how you hooked into your water passages and how you turn the system on and off from the panel?

Thanks, Looks good!  I bought the 6 hole one. 

[Matthewtanner 44]

Sure, plumbed In on the rightside with bulk head barbs. 

[Matthewtanner 44]

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

Thank you. I assume the water coming into the heater is coming from the outlet side (thermostat side of the engine) and the water going back into the engine is going back in the water pump side??

[Matthewtanner 44]

It’s just a heater core essentially, so I just hooked it up either way, didn’t pay much attention on which is which

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

 

The water coming out of the engine (Thermostat side) should be where you pull the fluid going into heat exchanger. The water will be the warmest at them point. If you pull fluid from the water pump side you will have cooler liquid going into the heat exchanger because its already been cooled some through the radiators. I had a guy tell me that he could cool his engine temps on warm days by turning on his fan inside the cockpit. I use to do this in an old truck I had. You didn't want to be inside the cab but the engine was happy.