Getting close for an engine choice

15 posts in this topic

Posted

Guys, getting close to having to make a choice on an engine for my light kitfox model 2. Have been considering most available 2 strokes and some 4 strokes, but no clear choices popped up. As it stands right now, the Hirth 55HP 3202 is showing promise but nothing definite. Before I'd go with a 582, I'd consider the Jab 2200 for basically the same weight.  I know a 582 is reliable in most aspects but I'd prefer air cooled if at all possible. Anybody have any solid prospects that comes to mind?  There are some untested good ones out there and some junk as well. Maybe this group has some in mind that I haven't thought of.

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Posted

I looked at the BMW and its available in stock form about everywhere. It does require a bit of work to make it aircraft suitable. Dick of RV fame said there wasn't enough time in one's life to design an airframe and an engine, too. I already have the airframe, but I am old and probably not enough time to design an engine or highly modify one. This Kitfox will be a local flyer and not a cross country machine.  1 to 2 hrs max flight time.

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Posted (edited)

I’m running a Simonini Victor 2 since several years without any issues - and I am in contact with serveral owners around the world (but none in the US) with the same positive experience. It is a modern 2 stroke engine but with higher power and lower consumption than 582. Mine give 92hp and consume 13 l/h. This model is no longer sold, the corrent model give 100hp and similar consumption. Same weight as a 582, similar price and the same attachment point (but the shape of the engine might require some modification to the engine mount.

More info on my blog...

http://avidsimonini.blogspot.com/

Edited by FredStork

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Posted

I’m running a Simonini Victor 2 since several years without any issues - and I am in contact with serveral owners around the world (but none in the US) with the same positive experience. It is a modern 2 stroke engine but with higher power and lower consumption than 582. Mine give 92hp and consume 13 l/h. This model is no longer sold, the corrent model give 100hp and similar consumption. Same weight as a 582, similar price and the same attachment point (but the shape of the engine might require some modification to the engine mount.

More info on my blog...

http://avidsimonini.blogspot.com/

I would prefer an engine that is available and popular here in the US. Mainly due to parts and service being available without going across the pond. It appears to be leaning to 3 options as of now. The 582, which will go away someday in the near future, the Hirth with its less than stellar reputation, but currently in production, and the Jab 2200 with its shady past that it might have fixed with the newer ones. As it stands now, the 582 is probably the most popular due to gobs of them out there flying and most problems have been dealt with by experience. The Hirth is coming up as a solid replacement but not a lot of owner info out there to go by. But parts and service are available within 4-5 hours from my location. This isn't just my issue, we are all in the same situation sooner or later. The older Avids, Kitfoxes, and many others which can't handle a 912 type engine are going to end up with no available engine choices eventually. Every new airframe kit is based around the 912 or bigger engine which leaves us lighter guys out. Very little work is being done on new lightweight engines for ultralight type aircraft. Maybe I am off the mark, but we all have some skin in this. Unless you are the Trent Palmer type with money or somebody to pay for it .

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Posted

If I was to choose a new engine I would go for the BMW R1200 engine. Parts are a non issue at a reasonable price. Here you have some info about a guy fitting it to a cherry BX-2..

http://spang-air.de/e/html/bmw_-_engine.html

 

Price wise you can get them at a good price too...

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/bmw-1200gs-flugmotor-m-neuen-bleidieselgetriebe/687835651-242-5976

 

Here a thread on homebuiltpanes.com

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4438

 

 

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Posted

From all I am reading and what info is out there (quite a bit) mainly from across the pond, it is a little heavy for a model 2 Kitfox.  Most come in around 165-175 lbs flying weight. A model 2 needs to stay in the 130-140 lb range at the max. Which leaves few choices for a four stroke.  Even if the weight was acceptable, by the time you add ballast to keep the CG in range, you are pushing 180-190 lbs.  Which leaves the 2 stroke as about the only option except maybe the Jab 2200.  We are not overflowing with lightweight aircraft engines.

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Posted

I suppose I might have to wait till I finish the airframe and weigh it complete with cowling minus engine and prop and see what I have to play with, weight wise. According to the paperwork, it originally had a 503 mounted and flew a hundred hours or so with it. For whatever reason the builder decided to install a 250 lb Subaru in the nose, which made a 725 lb aircraft with a gross wt. of 950 lbs. Doesn't seem logical.

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Posted

I’ll add I’ve been eye balling the yammy motor a bunch too...but super curious on firewall forward weight. I’m told the 582 fwf is like 156Lbs. No one has a fwf weight for the yammy. I’ve also seen some good reviews out of some on here about the Rotax 670. Simoni has a US distributer, which also can be an option. Hirth has an interesting 4cly 2 stroke that can be fuel injected, however I’m told the exhaust is a booger for a kitfox/avid. I just don’t know if our airframes could ever be maximized in terms of weight potential with a 4 stroke. 

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Posted

You might consider HKS. They are reliable, 4 stroke and light weight. You wouldn't have quite the power of a 582, but you would burn half the gas and have that 4 stroke peace of mind. And they come up used occasionally for a real decent price. 

You learn to live with and fly the power you have. There are a lot of people having a great time with 65 hp cubs and that is probably the equivalent of what you would have with an HKS on your plane, except you would burn a fraction of the fuel.

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Posted

HKS is an option, used not new, of course. The Hirth 4 cyl 2 stroke will fit if one uses the dual exhaust. It is a pricy engine, though.

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Posted

You might want to google "Mike Ricketts Avid Flyer". He is a corporate pilot and has an HKS on his Avid. He has done a number of videos of his little plane. He also pops up on this site once in a while. I knew him best from the old Yahoo Avid group where he was quite active. A super nice guy and quite competent.

2.5 GPH is a lot less expensive flying than 5 GPG + expensive 2 stroke oil! 

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Posted

2.5 GPH is nice! My 503 on my challenger never ran over 3 GPH and I ran it pretty hard at times.

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Posted

I think Mike Ricketts actually loiters around low and slow in the sub 2 GPH range with his plane at times. Check out his videos if you haven't.

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Posted (edited)

I'll check them out. Hard to beat 2 or less.

Edited by Allen Sutphin

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