Another Forced Landing - Mine


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Posted (edited)

Decided to pack my Avid up and bring it home from the aerodrome for the winter to upgrade the landing gear and replace the glass - 2nd Friday eve this past Sep, model C HH, But the grey head had other ideas about allowing the aircraft be transported home whole as I attempted to burn off some fuel.  It quit cold after take off right about over the #'s of the opposite end of the 3500' strip I operate from.  I constantly practice for such a scenario, in fact, on this t/o, I  steered left and parallel to the runway to  allow space for an emergency landing.  Man o man, when the shit hits the fan at no more than several 100' above the gnd, configured for climb and suddenly needing to be configured for best glide, not to mention executing the turn which added it's own equation of complexity  - oh yeah, it gets better -- the pucker factor is off the chart!  Rather than continue straight on to the tall yet to be harvested corn in front of me, shredding the aircraft and likely involving LEO and possibly the feds and the wretched media, I opted to  keep it on the field and executed the impossible turn - to  the right (as I had allowed for this) in hopes of making the clear grassy area west side of runway (I'd departed on 24).  Well, I made it just a little over 90 deg before finding myself in stall and failing to deploy flaperons ( which likely would have ameliorated my rapidly deteriorating situation), down I went striking hard (flat and  level  thankfully) at the end of the runway, collapsing the gear into more pieces than it originally was as I slid sideways into the grass.  I was fine and  in amazement as I gazed left and right at either tires up against the door glass.  I was uninjured, not a scratch, though in some shock for quite a few weeks in fact  I've been worse off in the several m/c low-sides I've experienced.  No one else involved that fall evening but I was very lucky a buddy who rushed to assist me fold it up and winch it on it's trailer picked up his phone straightaway, and we got it out of site within a couple of hours. 

I was going to replace gear anyways,  2 of the 3 IVO blades are toast, left longeron between gear mount tabs is bent  as well as the aft vert doorway section bent outwards outwards. Nothing else wrong that i can find.  Cowl is good; wings unscathed but for abraded wing tip during move.  It essentially needs to have fuselage bends straightened or spliced, new gear, new belly radiator and new IVO blades for the IFA hub and new tires as far as I can see thus far anyways. I have an extra IVO assy.

I can't for the life of me figure out what happened.  I have compression, it was feeding fuel and oil.  It's as though I cut the ignition off.  75 SMOH.  "Have you figured out what happened to the rotax"?  It's the first question from everyone.  It sucks not having the answer.

I've appreciated chatting up with several of you here about parts for sale and kicking around ideas but I've not decided what I'll do with it yet; do I want to put more money into this bird?....... or, sell whole, part out, trade, rebuild...............  I'm not afraid of the 2-smoke, but I just don't get the same warm and fuzzy I do behind a 4-stroke.  I love the little plane though, it carries out my missions very well.  Though it would be nice to have something a little more roomy.  For the time being, I've set it aside - on the far side of my shop.

Edited by allonsye
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Posted

Bummer about the engine out.  Still no idea why?  I can imaging several situations that could make it quit like that.  One thing about it, you're in good health afterwards, and the plane isn't beyond repair.  Could be a good time to widen the fuselage and get some more room while you do the repairs.  Don't give up on it!  JImChuk

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Posted

One would expect cold seizure since it is a common cause for failure in grey heads, especially on take-off. But that would be a guess at this point.  Tearing the engine down would be the only way to confirm the cause. And then one would have to look at each part as its removed. Most make the mistake of trying to restart it after a failure and that generally destroys the evidence. While you or if you tear it down, convert it to a bluehead on reassembly.

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Posted

YOu could buy a cheap borescope at Harbor Freight tools and look in the cylinders for scuffing... Then do a compression check both cylinders.... Then with the plugs out, but connected to the wires, spin the engine and see if you have spark....what you are trying to do is eliminate things that cause engine failure... spark, compression, fuel,

Fuel delivery is always a suspect... partial blockage, unporting a tank or sucking air intothe system before the engine fuel pump.. (this is why I put and electric fuel pump  on my and use it on takeoff)

So in summary, compression, spark, fuel.... if you have all that, prop the fuselage up and secure it well and put any sort of prop, flat pitch and see if it will run.. you dont have to do a full power run just see if it will start and run....

ONe thing also to check( MAJOR ITEM) is hold the carb slide open and turn the engine and see if the rotary valve is rotating with the cranksshaft.. Mine shears the brass gear and quit cold....all else was good....IF the rotary vavle is not rotating, it will not run

Let us know what you find.....

 

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Posted

Glad you're o.k..  So sad to hear about your bird.  When I bought mine, the previous owner had put a paper fuel filter behind the seat, between the wing tank and header tank.  When I took it off I discovered a small amount of water trapped there by its higher surface tension relative to fuel.  Had that filled with water the fuel flow would have stopped, as Leni will attest.  The proper place for any fuel filter is downstream of the header tank, as it really is a huge gascolator!  I hope this wasn't your problem.

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Posted

So sorry to hear about the bird and great that you were not hurt. Have you had the time to look back and assess your decision to perform the impossible turn as opposed to having landed in the cut corn? I am curious as to whether you think the outcome would have been any different.

In a similar situation of having to make an important decision VERY quickly, I decided to apply power and attempt a go around instead of just riding out a bad landing in my Magnum. I made the wrong decision in hindsight and applied power to go around. All it ended up doing was adding a lot more energy to the bad landing and resulted in more damage than would have happened had I just rode it out. We walked away too, but the plane is requiring a lot more work to fix.

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Posted

Possible vapor lock???

I had over 2400 hours behind a grey head 582. No issues.

I drive a Jabiru 2200 now and like the simplicity.

It weighs the same as the 582 I removed from my Avid when changing to the 4 stroke.

John M

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Posted

Possible vapor lock???

I had over 2400 hours behind a grey head 582. No issues.

I drive a Jabiru 2200 now and like the simplicity.

It weighs the same as the 582 I removed from my Avid when changing to the 4 stroke.

John M

You must be thinking of the Rotax 912 weight, the 582 is listed at 64 pounds and the Jabiru 2200 is listed at 138 pounds.

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Posted

The Rotax 582 is 64 horse 110 pounds dry. 

 

rotax.PNG

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Posted

Once you add up the parts, your right, the weights are very similar. I do like the idea of getting away from two stroke oil. The people running them in the past seem to have almost as many problems as people running 2 smoke engines.  http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7745  I'm sure if I had one laying around I'd have to try it. Price wise they seem like more money without any savings in weight, fuel consumption, or usable horsepower in Avid Flyer type aircraft. A reduction unit would take advantage of the extra horsepower but then your taking an additional hit in the weight department. Their website lists propellers for their engines and there are none longer than 60" and that will restrict performance in our style aircraft. The lower R.P.M.'s is something that should mean an engine that lasts longer but it has not been working out that way.

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Posted

Great feedback folks - as expected. 

Zadwit, I've been focused on other projects but I like your breakdown on methodically proceeding with finding the smoking gun.

I will be back on this thread w/my findings as soon as I do.

W/respect to 2-smoke vs 4-stroke; a 4-stroke direct drive I think offers a bit more simplicity than the 582 configuration which as more points of failure and for a variety of reasons.  Sadly there isn't a 4-stroke that comes in at the weight of a 582 -- adaptable to these little birds without major lengthening of fuselage mods and what have you.

THAT SAID!

Check this out......................................genius:

 

 

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Posted

At least two of us here have put quite a few hrs on Jabiru engines and like them.  I have over 500 hrs, and John has something like 3 or 4 times that much.  Neither of us has a lengthened fuselage either.  As far as that little rotary engine goes, I think the neighbors would be less tolerant of my airstrip and flying from it if I was using this engine.  It sure makes some noise.  JImChuk

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IN the 90s at fouts airfield in Fairbanks, Ted Rufli built an experimental supercub and put a Mazda rotary engine in it... He used a cherry bomb muffler..during gorund runs, the engine seized, but not one to give up Ted got another engine and isntalled it . Several local pilots flew it and they said it has plenty of power but was extremely loud and gobbled fuel..and the exhaust ran red hot... the muffler ran so hot the insides burned out...in short order. Ted installed a stainless cherry bomb muffle rand it did better but then one day it caught the belly fabric in fire....After that I built Ted a 180 lycoming engine and he installed that... That engine is still running today...!

I like the rotary engines... there was a guy in Anchorage who put one in an experiment Pacer but he had several engine failures. to Landed on the Seward highway one time. Each part that failed, he rebuilt out of steel and eventually got to where the engine was reliable....I agree, there is nothing out there that puts out the power for weight of the Rotax.. the rotax being 2 stroked has to be understood by the pilot or it is easy to burn it up....Also at 6000 rpm if something starts to fail, it goes pretty fast with not much warning...but if you have a good engine to start with and know how to operate it and have it jetted properly and the prop pitch set right to load the engine, you should be good for 300 hours or so... for most that is a few years flying....

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