home brewed nav lights


27 posts in this topic

Posted

I installed LED lights on the wing tips. They are for a boat and cost $24. Also I install two small strip LED light that I got at Autozone for $8. They are pretty bright....IF I had $500 I guess Id buy wingtip strobes.. but alas I am but a poor homebuilder especially with the stock market down turn...!

Here are some photos... Wingtip LED nav lights, Garmin G-5 in panel tied to Garmin Area 660.  Also photos of my muffler can with shourd and tin foil to insulate it  runs hot air to cabin heat box by my feet. I would have preferrd to mount the heat box someplace else but no room...

Id instal a water heater but I cant see how to force the water thru the heater.. I had a water heater in last 582 kitfox and it was barely warm. The water just ran to the radiator and thru it back to engine... Maybe the aluminum radiators have low resistance and so the water would flow thru the radiator easier then thru the Tee to the water heater in the cabin.... I might work onit later....

 

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Posted

Hi Mark,  could you post a link or brand name for the boat lights, the white ones to for that matter?  JImChuk

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Posted

I bought them several years ago off Ebay so dont have any of that info... There are others on Ebay however.... they are typically used on boats for port and starboard ID... and they seem to be plenty bright.....

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Posted

Here are a couple I found on the internet.... there are lots of them out there ....

LED lights.webp

s-l640.gif

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Posted

the white LED light I bought at Autozone store. The paper with them say "truck Tuff" truck light bars, white....not much there... Ebay has them from China for a couple of dollars!!

They are about 4" long, 3/8" wide and deep and very bright.....

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Posted

They look great, but be aware they are not legal for night flight.  Probably not too many Avids flying around at night though!

Mark

 

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Posted (edited)

I never did find these lights on the web.  As far as being legal, I was just looking at the FARs to check my memory, and all I see is that they must be visable from 3 miles away. Don't know how far these are visable from.   Maybe it says in the description which I have yet to read.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are more requirements, but I didn't see any.  JImChuk

PS  another thing I remember is a sport pilot can fly for 1/2 hr before sunrise or after sunset if he has lights, but not before sunrise or after sunset without lights.  Might be wrong on that as well
 

Edited by 1avidflyer

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Posted

91.205(c) part 2 - Approved position lights

Also part 3 - anticollision light must be approved (even in day VFR if aircraft is registered after March 11, 1996 )

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6744ba5e6f946ba5d34803a569e01de5&mc=true&node=se14.2.91_1205&rgn=div8

Unfortunately 'experimental' is not a get out of jail free for this one.

 

Mark

 

 

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Posted

If you look at your operating limits issued with the airworthiness, they usually have blurb about 'day VFR only unless equipped as required in FAR 91.205(c)' or some such phrase.  That is why it applies to experimental even thought 91.205 indicates only standard airworthiness certificates are required to have them.

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Posted

You are100% correct, Mark.  "Experimental" is out of the picture when it comes to true night flying. Same goes with IFR, regs do not specify experimental or certified, just properly equipped per the regs. Been thru that peeing contest before.

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Posted

And the reason why the lights have to be approved is really simple. Most experimental items only affect the safety of the aircraft and its crew. We all accept the calculated risk, and our passengers do when they read the big placard that we are required to post. But when you fly at night or IFR, or operate your transponder, the fitness of your systems now affects the safety of others. Bad night lights? Midair collision. Bad transponder signal? Traffic conflicts, mid air.

Also, the angles appear different between boats and airplanes, boat lights are probably deficient especially when measured from above or below (duh).

 

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Posted

91.205(c) part 2 - Approved position lights

Also part 3 - anticollision light must be approved (even in day VFR if aircraft is registered after March 11, 1996 )

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6744ba5e6f946ba5d34803a569e01de5&mc=true&node=se14.2.91_1205&rgn=div8

Unfortunately 'experimental' is not a get out of jail free for this one.

 

Mark

 

 

Paragraph (a) does say standard category airworthiness certificate

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Posted

91.205(c) part 2 - Approved position lights

Also part 3 - anticollision light must be approved (even in day VFR if aircraft is registered after March 11, 1996 )

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=6744ba5e6f946ba5d34803a569e01de5&mc=true&node=se14.2.91_1205&rgn=div8

Unfortunately 'experimental' is not a get out of jail free for this one.

 

Mark

 

 

Paragraph (a) does say standard category airworthiness certificate

But if you check your operating limits issued with the air worthiness certificate, you will find a limitation to day VFR unless equipped as required in 91.205.  

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Posted

Here is the operating limitations wording from the latest FAA Order (8132.2H), Appendix C, Item 41.  Your aircraft may have slightly different wording depending on when it received its airworthiness certificate:

Day VFR flight operations are authorized. Night flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in § 91.205(c) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91. (41)

 

 

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Posted

If it passes it's inspection with the lights installed does that qualify as approved?

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Posted

If it passes it's inspection with the lights installed does that qualify as approved?

In the end, don't expect to stick it to the inspector. The PIC is responsible for the compliance with regulations. 

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Posted

There must be a standard listed somewhere as to what qualifies and what won't. Is there a list of approved lights somewhere? There have been commercial aircraft produced since the beginning of the last century, do all forms of commercial lighting get an automatic green light just because it was approved at some point in the last 100 years?

Boat lights need to be approved too. How does a manufacturer get an endorsement? Is there supposed to be a mark on a light somewhere? Your car lights here in the United States need to be D.O.T. approved also. Did you know that automobile lights were required to be sealed beam? Many of us building custom motorcycles in the 70's were adding the then new halogen lights to our creations. These lights are not sealed beam and therefore were illegal. It was don't ask, don't tell back then. Those lights are still on my Harley today. Times have changed and I have not checked into the regulations but you would be hard pressed to find a car with sealed beam lights today. Who got the law changed?

I've got an antique set of lights that are out of an old T craft or something. There's not a mark on them any where. I bought them surplus over thirty years ago for an ultralight just to make it less likely to be run over by some hot rod pilot.

The color choice and visibility range make sense and are easily met with today's modern lights. There must be more to the story.

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Posted

Just because a part is on an approved aircraft doesn't mean it is approved for your airplane.  Standards change over time, and your aircraft must meet the standards in effect at the time it was issued its airworthiness certificate, and in the certified world, the part must be approved for your aircraft.  Otherwise you could take a Cessna wing and legally put it on a Bonanza...

The standard for position lights is AC 20-74 ( https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-74.pdf )

An approved position light will have paperwork indicating the standards it meets, usually TSO C30c for currently approved lights.  The manufacturer must also have a PMA (Parts Manufacturing Approval) to actually manufacture them AFTER they get them approved to the current standard.  Isn't dealing with the government wonderful?  Certified 'stuff' is expensive not because it is better, it is because of all the paperwork that it carries along with it.

We are very lucky that the 'amateur built experimental' category exists!

Mark

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Posted

Cloud Dancer, those old nav lights from a T Craft are surely ok, I'd use em.

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Posted

I would agree the T Craft lights would be ok - if nothing else they 'look like' approved lights, so the chances of anyone ever questioning them is barely above zero.  Things that are obviously something else would worry me though.  And there is nothing wrong with having unapproved lights on the airplane to improve your visibility during the day - I'd light mine up like a Christmas tree if I had enough amps to!

Mark

 

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Posted

Just because a part is on an approved aircraft doesn't mean it is approved for your airplane.  Standards change over time, and your aircraft must meet the standards in effect at the time it was issued its airworthiness certificate, and in the certified world, the part must be approved for your aircraft.  Otherwise you could take a Cessna wing and legally put it on a Bonanza...

The standard for position lights is AC 20-74 ( https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-74.pdf )

An approved position light will have paperwork indicating the standards it meets, usually TSO C30c for currently approved lights.  The manufacturer must also have a PMA (Parts Manufacturing Approval) to actually manufacture them AFTER they get them approved to the current standard.  Isn't dealing with the government wonderful?  Certified 'stuff' is expensive not because it is better, it is because of all the paperwork that it carries along with it.

We are very lucky that the 'amateur built experimental' category exists!

Mark

Your right, standards do change over time but after reading that document link you provided, I have to say, not much! It's dated 1971 and there are no significant changes from it's previous form which dates back in the early 30's. Typical government document taking ten times more pages than necessary to describe something. The standard is far more open than those used for car headlights which is good to see. They are mainly worried about color, brightness and dispersal but fail to use such simple terms to say so. No where did it list a government agency to submit a specimen for testing and approval. Also typical government fashion.

Being a machinist in the Cedar Rapids, Iowa area I've produced my share of government work, from fixtures and prototypes for Collins Radio to parts for tank tracks. I never had to deal with the paper trail end of it, I get a blueprint with dimensions and go from there. I also worked for Vision 4 Less for a couple of years making eye glasses. I can tint a lens any color you can think of in about 20 minutes. Another of my toys here at home is a CNC laser. The Outdoor Specialties company used to engrave the lids of turkey box calls with it. They upgraded to a bigger unit and I purchased their old Kern laser system. I just happen to have a photo power meter that I use to calibrate my laser. It's over kill compared to their measuring tools in that 1971 document. I'm wondering how long it will be before someone wants a custom lens shape to streamline a wing tip or tail tip? Machine a mold out of nylon or some other slippery plastic and cast a lens out of clear resin and then tint it to the desired shade and back light it with a white light source in a custom machined, molded or stamped base. Without all the red tape and hoops to jump through we would see more growth in the aircraft world.

Wait a minute, you mean you can't take a wing off a Cessna and put it on a Bonanza? Many aircraft are flying that are Frankenstein's of their former selves. I thought they called them Experimental? The Breezy comes to mind as one example of an airplane that's designed to use the wing off another airplane. Or were you just referring to keeping an airplane original?

When those led tail light lens first hit the market the truckers were switching fast, long before they changed the law to make them legal. Government is always a little slow catching up with the times.

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Posted

Breezy is not a certified airplane.  And you can't take a Cessna wing and put it on a Bonanza and call it an experimental.  Breezy works because using an existing wing still fit it within the 51% rule.

This standard hasn't changed much, which is a good thing.

If you've never dealt with the paperwork side, then you don't have any idea what it requires.  My work requires me to deal regularly with the FDA and other agencies as we do work for pharmaceutical companies.  The cost of the paperwork far exceeds the cost of producing the product/service.  I will say that compared to most agencies, the FAA has minimal paperwork, and a much more cooperative attitude - think that over for a minute!

For an aircraft to be certified as an amateur built experimental, the build has to have performed 51% of the work.  On the Piper forum I hang out on, there is at least 2 or 3 inquiries a year on how to make their Piper experimental so they can get the advantages.  The answer is you can't.  There are other experimental categories you can get it recertified in, but they are so restrictive no one in their right mind would use them.

If you've never had to work/fly in the certified world, you have no idea how wonderful the amateur built experimental world is.  A simple gas strut to open/hold open the door to my Cherokee?  $250 + $85 labor to install.  Form 337 filled out and filed, STC and instructions for continued airworthiness (5 pages) added to the aircrafts pilot operating handbook.

Mark

 

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Posted

I just ordered some wingtip lights, they should b in nextweek. Im going to try some 19 LED, 2" bee hive clearnce lights.  They where $7 each. 

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Posted

Breezy is not a certified airplane.  And you can't take a Cessna wing and put it on a Bonanza and call it an experimental.  Breezy works because using an existing wing still fit it within the 51% rule.

This standard hasn't changed much, which is a good thing.

If you've never dealt with the paperwork side, then you don't have any idea what it requires.  My work requires me to deal regularly with the FDA and other agencies as we do work for pharmaceutical companies.  The cost of the paperwork far exceeds the cost of producing the product/service.  I will say that compared to most agencies, the FAA has minimal paperwork, and a much more cooperative attitude - think that over for a minute!

For an aircraft to be certified as an amateur built experimental, the build has to have performed 51% of the work.  On the Piper forum I hang out on, there is at least 2 or 3 inquiries a year on how to make their Piper experimental so they can get the advantages.  The answer is you can't.  There are other experimental categories you can get it recertified in, but they are so restrictive no one in their right mind would use them.

If you've never had to work/fly in the certified world, you have no idea how wonderful the amateur built experimental world is.  A simple gas strut to open/hold open the door to my Cherokee?  $250 + $85 labor to install.  Form 337 filled out and filed, STC and instructions for continued airworthiness (5 pages) added to the aircrafts pilot operating handbook.

Mark

 

I used to fly with a guy that had his Cessna 150 registered as an experimental so your wrong about not being able to move from certified to experimental. A more recent example would be Draco.

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Posted (edited)

A GA aircraft can be moved to experimental class, just not in the AB/experimental category.  There are several categories that one could move a GA aircraft to. Such as exhibition, testing, etc. The experimental certificate covers several categories. We just deal with the Experimental AB one. They had the diesel powered C-172 in  the experimental class while they were testing the engine.

Edited by Allen Sutphin

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