Need help

[krazycanuck2011 0]

I purchased an Avid Flyer Model C - it has one single piece of damage from some sort of landing which caused this damage. Two questions, I've never worked with this fabric before, and I'm looking to minimize the cutting of fabric and damage to repair

- do I cut from the bottom and peel back or cut from the side to uncover the  bent pipe? 

Next question, how do suspect this happened? (Tail wheel must have gone up and struck the rudder? I knew a lot of people that were there that day and the landings were perfect by a longtime pro, so it wasn't the builder that flew the aircraft. It flew on a grass strip - is this tailwheel not up to the task, weak by design? Last thing I want is to have to deal with a tail wheel that impacts the rudder and causes damage every couple of flights.

Pic attached, thanks again for your help and comments.

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

You should be able to dissolve the paint and glue on the fabric with MEK and not cut anything.  Peal off the finish tape, peal back the fabric from each side, straighten the rudder and reattach the fabric.  Unless your tailsping is really soft /weak you would really have to bang it down hard to bend the rudder.  More likely to get bent that much if the wings are folded and the tail gets dropped off the trailer or something.  You can change out or double up the spring if it's real weak to prevent this happening again if it did happen from a landing.  JImChuk

PS. Just looked at the picture again, and if the plane was trailered without the tail being supported and you hit some big bumps, you might get. This damage.

Edited 2 Mar 2019 by 1avidflyer

[sioux201 84]

 The first thing I would try, is a heat gun, VERRY SLOWly!!!!

[krazycanuck2011 0]

Yeap, I will try that Sioux201 first - I will be moving the aircraft to my hanger in about 2 months from now, its staying where it is now until the weather improves here in Canada ( snow, salt, wind..... grrrrr....) So in any case, I will follow your idea first, to see if anything is out of shape at that point. The aircraft is going to be gone over as much as I can without ripping things apart before we attempt any flights, but we do expect to have some time in this summer with any luck. Rotax 532 Engine is getting opened up and looked at by a Rotax Certified Mechanic, first thing.... That gives me the time to address this issue and go through the plane... The aircraft has flown before, but did not burn off the required 25 hours by Transport Canada to consider it passenger safe, so I'm going to reset the clock and burn off 25 hours. Aircraft flew very well by those that were present the flights it did have, so that is comforting... This appeared damage, looks minor, so I just want to fix it right, than with any luck the cobwebs should be cleaned and blown off her in my inspections.

 

[Dusty 126]

If your C of G allows,I would reccomend replacing the single spring with multiple springs as springs do break. A single will leave you stranded where a multiple will only sag. As an aside there has been a few discussions on maule v's Matco tail wheels !

[Allen Sutphin 705]

Removing the fabric and repairing a tube, then recovering isn't a big job, especially something small like a rudder.  It is a small item that covers all the different processes of a covering job. Good experience for later on. Eventually any fabric aircraft owner will be facing a recover for various reasons and most are scared by the thought of it. In reality its not difficult, just requires a little time and patience. Doesn't matter what system you use, its generally the same process up to UV protection and paint.

[Cloud Dancer 69]

I second the MEK method over the heat gun but find out what type of finish process was used if possible. There are people out there using latex paint and others are using old tried and true dope. Some are extremely flammable. Some processes can be put on top of the other, some cannot. If in doubt the MEK will dissolve most and give you an idea on what may have been used. It can be a slow process with MEK on finishes outside the Polyfiber products but in the long run it can be repaired without requiring new material if that's what your after.

[1avidflyer 1983]

Look at the inside of the fabric in the fuselage.  Poly fiber will usually have a pinkish color.  Gray was common with Avids also.  That is  butyrate dope probably.   Both will melt with MEK

[flywise 169]

Looking at your damage I don't believe the tailwheel hit your rudder. Instead I would bet someone (not clever) tried to move the aircraft lifting the tail using the bottom of the rudder as a "handle"....the only/easiest place to lift if the wings are folded.

I might be wrong but here my 2 cents

[SuberAvid 617]

That damage is classic when your tail spring bolt breaks.

[FredStork 453]

That damage is classic when your tail spring bolt breaks.

agree.. been there, done that - but in my case it was the tail spring that broke, same damage...

[nlappos 413]

A new double spring is a great answer. Try Wassau Spring, they are responsive and have done several of ours. Just search on this site for their info.

while at it, I recommend the pneumatic 8” Matco single arm tail wheel over your Maul. Smoother landings and no noise taxiing.

[flywise 169]

That damage is classic when your tail spring bolt breaks.

Thanks, I stand corrected. Great to learn stuff. I thought a tailwheel hitting the rudder would inflict more damage.

[krazycanuck2011 0]

Nlappos - just curious why the single vs double arm for the 8"  - cost???

 

Also would you go with a fat tire or just the norm 8"? 

Thx

 

[TJay 1041]

To Quote Swingle You got to have Fat Tires.

[nlappos 413]

Nlappos - just curious why the single vs double arm for the 8"  - cost???

 

Also would you go with a fat tire or just the norm 8"? 

Thx

 

cost, yes. The single is about $270 list and the double is over $480, as well the single is lighter (a big deal when the aft CG component is accounted for). My pneumatic tail tire is swell, and the extra couple of hundred bought a transponder (on eBay!)

Edited 5 Mar 2019 by nlappos

[akflyer 1427]

old injun trick.  Prop the tail up in the air with a saw horse and poke a tiny hole through the fabric right over the area that is bent.  Run a wire or small cable through the hole and pull down on it.  You will be surprised how much of that you can pull out.  A tiny patchy over the holes and your ready to fly again.  Done this on a few cubs after the tailwheel smacked the rudder on hard landings.

 

[krazycanuck2011 0]

Ok so I actually got the real story from the previous owner yesterday about the tail wheel. The stock single spring broke apparently which caused the issue. I managed to crawl under the plane and saw the tube had a smack in it pushing it up. The photo shows a new tailwheel spring. Wish he had to tell me that in the beginning.

I also found out the tailwheel assembly is 39 lbs. That seems really heavy. I'm sure if I changed it out to something lighter it would affect the c of g and bring it forward. But I will be upgrading to a more robust assembly with pneumatic tire.

So now that we have the real story on how it happened, I guess I need to figure out the best way to straighten the pipe, brace it or strength it for the future,. The fabric upon closer inspection is open underneath, so I maybe able to simple bring the fabric back together and glue or something....

I need your revised opinions again,

 

 

[1avidflyer 1983]

That tail wheel weight is probably more like the weight you find on your weight and balance sheet, although it's a little on the light side for that.  Looks like your have a 6" Maule tailwheel, and I didn't find a weight for it, but a 6" Matco is listed at 4.7 lbs.  The spring is maybe about 11" x1 1/4" x 5/16" so it's probably not much over a pound or so.  6-7 lbs for both of them together.    JImChuk

[krazycanuck2011 0]

We are in the process now of going through the official paperwork (or lack there of) , I spoke with Transport Canada and found that there is a valid c of r in place. Now I asked them to find the records to the c of a. Owner can't find the official papers, so I've tasked him to find the papers and all the logs. I have the build log, weight and balance, and the fuel flow reports. I have the applications, and flight time / engine time. But need a couple of other things here in Canada (technical and journey logs and that c of a) to seal the deal

If there was no c of a in place currently, which I'm told there is he just paid for it 2 months ago for another year, would cause me an entire level of pain I don't want to go through with Transport Canada. =)

Anyhow, I think things will come together, we are definately coming closer to making things happen. I'm just learning more and more about the aircraft every week. I'm in the process now of digitizing all the paperwork and storing it on a backup and nas system. There is quite a bit of documentation that I have right back to 1988 from Avid themselves... This plane is an Avid Model C 100% confirmed with a Speed Wing. It has the wooden longeron down the bottom of the plane. I also found out it does not have the elevator stops put in place, so that has to get done, per the UK safety bulletin I read online to protect the studs on either side of the elevator shaft from cracking due to overextension and torsion.