New toy coming for the shop

[akflyer 1427]

I punched the button on a CNC plasma table with router and pipe / tube attachment.  This will greatly speed up making the brackets and all parts for new landing gear, engine mounts etc.  Also at the top of my list will be to make new wing ribs.  After flying Bob's KF IV a bit I think this is the airfoil I will use when I rebuild the coyote wings.  The possibilities are endless but the CNC router will make quick work out of making ribs for those that need them.  I have also seen some work that guys are turning out basically using the router as a mill for doing work on aluminum too and its pretty impressive!  Can't wait to get it set up and running, it should be in the shop the end of next month!

With the coyote I am not too worried about the wing folding so I am toying with the idea of scaling up the wing ribs a bit.  Any thoughts on this?  I have seen guys using the D&E wing kit going 55" wide on the wings so its essentially a cub wing with side x side seating.  I don't know why this couldn't be done using the KF airfoil and maybe getting a tad bit faster cruise but even better on the stall.  More wing area doesn't seem like a bad idea to me but I am not an engineer.   Thoughts??

https://premierplasmacnc.com/collections/premier-plasma-cnc-tables/products/new-premier-plasma-4x8-flat-deck-table-w-floating-head

 

Edited 17 Mar 2019 by akflyer

[Cloud Dancer 69]

I hope you got the water pan option and have a great vent system. The job shop I worked for back in the 90's bought one and put it in a large shop with no over head vent system. When it was running the cloud was so thick we had to duck under while walking through just to see where we were going. I was running cnc's in a connected building and didn't have to go in there much but the guys that did had a hell of a time during winter. The summer plan was to open up all the tall over head doors and let the wind clear out the smog. That was with a water pan. It paid for itself in a short time but the owner didn't want to spend any money on a vent system and workers kept leaving because of the smog. He finally decided to sell it rather than put in some smog control measures. The walls and everything in that building ended up a black color from the smog.

Edited 17 Mar 2019 by Cloud Dancer
auto correct errors

[TJay 1041]

Oh So Jealous here.  I have been looking at those for 5 years now.  It is amazing what they can do.  Always been afraid that I wouldn't be able to figure out the programing.  Keep us posted on this thing and the coyote build.

[Willja67 144]

With the coyote I am not too worried about the wing folding so I am toying with the idea of scaling up the wing ribs a bit.  Any thoughts on this?  I have seen guys using the D&E wing kit going 55" wide on the wings so its essentially a cub wing with side x side seating.  I don't know why this couldn't be done using the KF airfoil and maybe getting a tad bit faster cruise but even better on the stall.  More wing area doesn't seem like a bad idea to me but I am not an engineer, thoughts?

 

Not an engineer either but structurally I think you're pretty safe increasing the cord of the wing, you can get into trouble increasing span if the spars aren't strong enough. The other thing you have to be aware of is stability. You'll have to increase the size of your tail feathers to keep the same control effectiveness. And that leads to wondering if the aft fuselage can handle those extra loads? Again not an engineer don't sue me if I'm wrong. 

 

Btw I'm also jealous of your new toy.

[akflyer 1427]

I hope you got the water pan option and have a great vent system. The job shop I worked for back in the 90's bought one and put it in a large shop with no over head vent system. When it was running the cloud was so thick we had to duck under while walking through just to see where we were going. I was running cnc's in a connected building and didn't have to go in there much but the guys that did had a hell of a time during winter. The summer plan was to open up all the tall over head doors and let the wind clear out the smog. That was with a water pan. It paid for itself in a short time but the owner didn't want to spend any money on a vent system and workers kept leaving because of the smog. He finally decided to sell it rather than put in some smog control measures. The walls and everything in that building ended up a black color from the smog.

We have a larger table in the shop at work just using a down draft and inline fans to pipe the smoke outside.  With the water table and fan I should be able to keep it under control.  The plus side is I wont be running huge jobs just lots of small ones so the actual burn time per project wont be much.  Smaller areas like mine are much easier to evacuate fumes from with minimal equipment versus a large shop with high ceilings.

 

TJ,

Learning the programing is not that tough.  If you have the means to do so go for it, I don't see a down side to having a new toy in the shop that's a tax write off

 

Willja, larger tail feathers are already in the plans anyway.   Its just an idea I am toying with and looking at the possibilities.

 

[NorthIdahoAvidflyer 374]

That's great news Lenny. Congrats!!

Edited 19 Mar 2019 by NorthIdahoAvidflyer
spelling

[SuberAvid 617]

Awesome Leni!  It would be nice to get the profile of the Kitfox STI rib, a bit deeper and more chord.  That Savage cub would be another one to look at, a relatively short wing but it sounded like they used a cub rib profile from the talk I heard.  It performed pretty well at Valdez.

Can't wait to see you get this working and the Coyote flying!

[Buckchop 479]

Leni, i mayb able to helpout with some wing rib profiles to test/try/checkout,  my buddy Brian (who is showin me the ropes of flying my Blackfox) is building the lastest KF sti/ak mods he calls it, ill bet i could get a patteren, also i have some (to expensive) experimental wing ribs for the PA12' that we havent started building yet,  could make a patteren from them also. 

Ps i like the color choice, black and green match my plane, hahahahaaaaa

Edited 19 Mar 2019 by Buckchop

[Turbo 162]

Greater chord can create higher loads, so you will have a lower maneuvering speed, even with the same span.  V-squared will come down roughly as wing area goes up (ignoring aspect ratio reduction)  in other words, the product of S x V- squared is constant.  You will want to keep the quarter-chord point at the same lengthwise location, I should think.  This will help to preserve the relative loadings on the two spars, and will minimize changes in the aerodynamic center location although the larger H-tail will move it aft somewhat, increasing pitch stability.   Max lift coefficient of the new airfoil, if higher than that of the Avid, will also drive maneuvering speed down, just like VGs do.  The difficult part here is assessing that difference, since with the flaperons we have to consider this a two-element lifting system.  The wing airfoil never flies alone.  It's like having camber-changing flaps, like on a sailplane.  Comparing at cruise flaperon setting makes the most sense, though the optimum may be different for the two section shapes.  Fortunately, this can be assessed after-the-fact, in flight test, by measuring your new stall speed.