First kitfox coming home to Oregon. suggested mods?

[Klmt101 5]

Yesterday I purchased my first kitfox. kitfox 1 32 hours hasn't flow in quite a while. would love to hear what modifications should be done while im cleaning it up. engine recommendations would be nice also. get some pictures when I get it home.

[akflyer 1427]

Best mod you can do is put wide gear on it and put gas through the tanks!  

Does it have an engine now?  The 582 is hard to beat unless you want to put a V2 on it like fred has on his Avid.  The KF 1 is an awesome flying bird that has great STOL performance.  Keep it as light as you can and learn to really fly it.

 

[Klmt101 5]

the gear is really narrow, any manufacturer you suggest? V2 what engine is that called a few shops today and the majority suggested a 582 with E gear box 3.47 ratio and a 72 inch prop.

[1avidflyer 1983]

If you have to recover the fuselage, I would widen the fuselage to get some extra width.  36" wide is narrow with two people in it.  Also, don't add anything extra to it.  Lighter the better if you want good performance!   JImChuk

[akflyer 1427]

I would look for a C gear box.  The E box puts more weight right out on the nose and that is not where you want it in an Avid / Kitfox.

The Avid Wide gear works great on a KF.  Some will tell you grove gear but that adds weight and $$$.  I am not sure if you would have any luck getting a set of gear out of the new avid "factory" or not.  

[Willja67 144]

I just got done putting Stace Schraders Bush gear on my KF1. I'm doing a lot more work on my plane so i can't tell you yet how it handles but he guaranteed that it would be straight when installed and it was. His gear requires that you cut off the front mounting bracket and weld on a new one that the cabane can bolt to. After doing that i would cut the ends off the cabane and weld brackets on the end so it would just be a bolt on install. Just felt really invasive to the airframe. A lot of ways to potentially screw up or damage something.

 

Overall i love the gear with the one complaint.  Oh yeah you probably won't be able to use the wheels, brakes,  and axels that came with your plane so factor that into the costs

As far as other mods you better inspect your flaperon hangars and see if they need to be reinforced. I'm about to start on mine. The wood looks sound but I'm doing it for peace of mind. 

Edited 25 Jun 2019 by Willja67

[1avidflyer 1983]

Another choice for the wide cabane style gear is Lowell Fitt, (highwings llc)  If you want to go with him, I can supply his contact info to you.  I have his gear on my Avid MK IV.  Used it this evening as well.  His gear should fit on your plane without you needing to weld anything.  JImChuk

PS  Lowell is active on the TeamKitfox forums site

Edited 25 Jun 2019 by 1avidflyer

[nlappos 413]

I put Lowell Fitt gear on and it is simply terrific. Basically the same as the Highwing LLC gear, I am told. Very kind on landing, and the aircraft tracks straight on rollout. Very much more stable than the stock gear.

Edited 25 Jun 2019 by nlappos

[Klmt101 5]

Some contact info would be great cant find anything on the internet. Looking for suggeations on replacment wing tips, these are cracked badly and egt and cht gauges for a 582. A bolt on replacment would be much better than welding new gear attach points. Going to probaly need new axles wheels tires and brakes also with new gear what is everybody liking?

[1avidflyer 1983]

With Lowell's gear, you can probably use your old wheels and axels if they are not the first style disk brakes Kitfox used.  First ones had the brake rotor bolt to the center of the wheel hub with 6 or 8 allen screws.  Later ones are held onto the wheel rim near the outside of the rotor with 3 1/4" allen head screws.  JImChuk

PS  if you are going with a 582, you probably want a water temp gauge instead of a CHT gauge

Edited 26 Jun 2019 by 1avidflyer

[wypaul 448]

In the interest of fairness there have been several fuselages severely damaged by that style of gear. Do some research before you you decide.  I can say Lowells gear is very well built and he is very good to do business with.  Been there down that street,not going down that street again, your mileage my very.  

PS maybe Lowell would build you a Cub style gear.  Gear legs and cabane are the same just a better way to absorb the shock that has passed the test of time.

Edited 26 Jun 2019 by wypaul

[Willja67 144]

Some contact info would be great cant find anything on the internet. Looking for suggeations on replacment wing tips, these are cracked badly and egt and cht gauges for a 582. A bolt on replacment would be much better than welding new gear attach points. Going to probaly need new axles wheels tires and brakes also with new gear what is everybody liking?

I've got some MGL gauges that came off my plane. You'll have tach egt cht coolant temp and pressure. These are the 2 3/4" gauges so they're not very big and light weight

 

Edited 26 Jun 2019 by Willja67

[Texaskitfox 0]

Some contact info would be great cant find anything on the internet. Looking for suggeations on replacment wing tips, these are cracked badly and egt and cht gauges for a 582. A bolt on replacment would be much better than welding new gear attach points. Going to probaly need new axles wheels tires and brakes also with new gear what is everybody liking?

I've got some MGL gauges that came off my plane. You'll have tach egt cht coolant temp and pressure. These are the 2 3/4" gauges so they're not very big and light weight

 

Willja67 are you selling these? if so, what are you asking for them?

[Willja67 144]

Some contact info would be great cant find anything on the internet. Looking for suggeations on replacment wing tips, these are cracked badly and egt and cht gauges for a 582. A bolt on replacment would be much better than welding new gear attach points. Going to probaly need new axles wheels tires and brakes also with new gear what is everybody liking?

I've got some MGL gauges that came off my plane. You'll have tach egt cht coolant temp and pressure. These are the 2 3/4" gauges so they're not very big and light weight

 

Willja67 are you selling these? if so, what are you asking for them?

Yes I'm selling them. $150 each $450 total.  My reasoning is that they're about $300 each brand new so I figure used in good condition is worth at least half of brand new.  I have the wiring harnesses which is also included in the price a couple of the wires are slightly shorter than new since I clipped the sensors off that they were wired to. Fortunately the previous owner left the wires full length and didn't clip them off top exact length or remove the unneeded ones. 

[zadwit 105]

ONe good hard landing with the coil spring type gear and you will bottom the springs and bend the gear legs.. .I did, C-5 did and others have as well. 

 

The wider gear makes a HUGH difference in ground handling of the plane , however I would opt for bungee type shock absorptions.

 

I have seen 2 skyraider/ ridge runner airplanes that made very hard landings and the gear got trashed , the bungees snapped, and the gear legs bent like pretzels, however the gear fittings did not get hurt.... When I say hard I mean dropped in from 10-15ft.

WHen learning to fly a kitfox, no one plans to land hard but it happens.... and if you have an instructor with you, now you have an extra 200 # or so in the cabin that makes it all the worse....I think you are better off to get checked out in a 7AC  or citabria and then go fly the kitfox yourself.

Take it up to a safe altitude, do a few turns , some slow flight, do a few approach to landing type stalls and note the airspeed... Now when you land add 5 or 10 mph to that speed and use that speed on final, until you get a few hours under your belt... The under camber airfoil will quit flying with little warning and if you are landing and level off 5 feet int he air, it will quit flying 5ft in the air and you will smak the ground so just carry a little extra speed until you get used to the plane and how it stalls.

ALso these are light airframes, with LOW INERTIA... if the engine quits on takeoff, SLAM the stick forward so you dont loose your airspeed... and you will have to put the nose down at an uncomfortable angle to keep the airspeed if the prop is still windmilling. Also dont even think about turning back to the airport.. After you get some time in the plane you can practice at altitude and there are a few youtube videos on "the impossible turn" which helps you determine at what altitude can I turn around with engine failure...it is highly variable, density altitude, weight, your proficiency in the airplane so for starting out, just fly straight ahead with gentle turns to avoid obstacles. 

I used 50 mph for initial climb and after about 50 ft altitude, go to 65mph (speed is life!)  I used 55-60 in pattern slowing to 50 on short final.. some will say too fast but not when the plane is new to you... after you get time in the plane you can slow the speed down  .. Just remember this is a thin cross section airfoil (12% or so) and they tend to have undesirable stall characteristiccterics in stall and secondary or accelerated stalls. It does not stall like a champ or cub airfoil..and is made worse by the low energy of the airframe...so proceed with caution. ONce you learn to fly it, the performance is eye watering.... DO NOT do 45mph full power steep climbs to show off if you value your life at all.

My KF 2 had a 582 and I tried different props, but liked the 3 blade Warp Drive 68" diameter, with a "C" gearbox and 3:1 ratio, smooth , good climb, reasonable cruise. Blade pitch set for 5800-6000 static.

Grove gears is bolt on and improves the ground handling and they have lots of wheel and brake combos..however I would opt for cub type gear with bungees..Grove gear is heavy, and $$$$$$$

 Just my experience on this ...

The KF 4 if beefier and different airfoil, faster, also heavier, so the KF 2 will out climb it, but the KF 4 is a nice plane and this is reflected in their price...

KF1, 2 come up for sale in the 7-10K price range... KF4 a lot more..

 

The KF 1,2 have small tails and you can run out of up elevator in flare on landing and the rudder looses authority around 20mph so in a wind it can be trouble...some learn to live with it, some make the vertical and rudder taller..

 

There are some water temps gauges on Ebay for $12 that work great with the 582 engine. They are LED gauges.

FOr EGT I like the Aircraft Spruce SPortavia, round EGT that has two needles and switchs from one cylinder to the other automatically. THey use K type thermocouples, also on Ebay for $15 or same ones from SPruce for $59. There are all shapes and lengths and attachments types but "K" thermocouple is the one you want.

SO there ya go.... this is what I learned , in some cases the hard way!! but it is a fun plane to fly.

Also if you trailer it any distance at all , make sure the wing braces to the front wing spar tube to fuselage are in place...

 

 

 

 

 

[nlappos 413]

Regarding the Fitt gear and the coil spring bottoming, I did a careful analysis of the landing condition that zadwit describes, and nobody's gear is any stronger. It takes 12 feet per second sink speed and 4 g's of airframe impact to bottom that spring, which makes Fitt's gear stronger than any Cessna. The softer bungees he describes just bottom sooner, because soft is not better, it just collapses sooner.

 

[Willja67 144]

Regarding the Fitt gear and the coil spring bottoming, I did a careful analysis of the landing condition that zadwit describes, and nobody's gear is any stronger. It takes 12 feet per second sink speed and 4 g's of airframe impact to bottom that spring, which makes Fitt's gear stronger than any Cessna. The softer bungees he describes just bottom sooner, because soft is not better, it just collapses sooner.

It's not about strength it's about where those forces go. When the coil spring bottoms all that force goes into the fuselage and bends it.  When the bungees bottom the gear just splays more. 

[nlappos 413]

Willja,

The bungees do not break, they stop stretching and act like a solid bar, and then the gear and fuselage bend or break. Look at the photos of hard landings, show us ONE where the gear splays out and leaves the fuselage undamaged, like a sled. And my point is those bungees are somewhat softer, so the same landing G force, the same feet per second of downward aircraft motion, causes  splaying but the same end result, a bent airframe. I would bet no gear we know gives more than 4 g's of impact, springs or bungees either.

[zadwit 105]

I thought this would be a hot button topic.... bungees will break. Ive seen two sets fail, both due to hard landings....however the fuselage on both planes was NOT damaged at all.

WIth the wide gear and coil springs under compression for shock absorption, if you hit hard, or go thru a ditch hard and bottom the coils on the springs, odds are you will bend the gear leg... C5 went to bungges for this reason I think, ask him..

I went with grove gear...heavy, $$$$$$ but bolt on and it works even with its known issues..

C5, and myself both bent our front tubes on the landing gear with the coil spring set up...Leni went to a super duper heavy duty coil spring from a skidoo I think to prevent bottoming of the coils... The absolute best set up is the nitrogen shocks that Just aircraft uses but lots and lots of $$$$$

Tire size plays a critical role in all this , large low pressure tires take up a lot of shock. When I ran 6:00x6 tires and made a fairly hard landing, my gear bent.. If I had 800x6 or larger low pressure tires, it might not have happened....

 

WIth the coil spring gear, just taxi thru a ditch at moderate speed and the coils will bottom out or bind and then it is the same as a ridgid gear...

 

ON both the aircraft that the bungees snapped, the gear got trashed, however the airframe was undamaged... the gear fittings were not hurt and I only had to install new gear and go on my way... Had Grove gear been on there, it would have bent the hell out of the airframe...as has been seen time and time again... I do like the grove gear, 

but you can bend the fuselage tubes. They are only .035x1/2"od tubes...

THe wider gear makes the plane handle better on the ground...

The stock Avid or Kitfox gear will not take much of a side load before it folds under the plane and then you get the wing bent, prop trashed, and other damage...

 

Bandit has a pretty good youtube video showing the stability of the coil spring gear on his Avid Bandit. He likes it... 

 

I just know  learning to fly, you are bound to make a few hard landings... the main thing is to keep the plane undamaged while learning to fly it...