Classic IV Restoration

453 posts in this topic

Posted

Right on! It is good to see some progress!

:BC:

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Posted

That looks great. I wondered how you got the left pedal on the pass. side to work on the inner tube but the pics show it well. That should be a nice set up.

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Posted

I've been dong many things on the Mangy Fox. Not much shows well in a photo until today...

I'm using Grove gear. The brackets attach to the front gear mount and the forward float mount. Since my issue of bending the bungee truss, I decided I wanted to strengthen the side trusses at the gear attach points. This is how I have decided to do it.

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I used .032" sheet metal to make webbing between the tubing. I added the 2" holes to lighten the added steel.

post-36-13595152030056_thumb.jpg

It looks a little strange at this point but we stitch welded the webbing into position. The total weight of the webbing is about 3 pounds. The strength added is priceless.

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Posted

I don't have any photos of it, but I also added two of Murl Williams' underseat storage lockers.

underseat.jpg

I didn't care for the "angle aluminum" and pop rivet installation they recommended, so I fabricated an aluminum ring to put under the seat lid and strengthen it.

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Posted (edited)

We fabricated a better mousetrap in regard to the door latches. I have a single latch system on my yellow plane. I have seen them on the net, I think they came from Williams. One latch is not enough to keep the doors closed, in my opinion. On my yellow plane the latch is in the front, if I go any faster than 100 mph, the rear of the door gets pulled out and lots of air comes in. Not a problem in the summer, but it really sucks in the winter.

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post-36-13607294572925_thumb.jpg

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted

Those are some great ideas. One thing about these planes, they facilitate innovation especially when it comes to storage.

The fusalage reinforcement looks like it will make a huge difference. One of the things I wish I had done was to add lightening holes to plates such as in my landing gear steps. Of course I figured that out after I had everything covered and painted. :hammerhead:

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Posted

Wow,

love the pedals and brakes. As briliant as Denny and Dean Wilson are, have never understood the lousy pedal design... my pet peave. while you are working on the seat, I would suggest playing with extra cushions under and behind the pilot. I have it that way in my KF 3, and it allows an extra 2" of comfort by staggering pilot and passenger shoulders. (as opposed to being shoulder to shoulder)

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Posted

while you are working on the seat, I would suggest playing with extra cushions under and behind the pilot. I have it that way in my KF 3, and it allows an extra 2" of comfort by staggering pilot and passenger shoulders. (as opposed to being shoulder to shoulder)

Funny you mention that. I just dropped the seats from my Aerotrek off at the upholstery shop so he can use them as templates to make new seats for my KF4-1200. I asked him to make me (2) each regular seat and back cushions, then an extra set seat 2-1/2" thicker. Figured I could mix 'n match as necessary for leg stretch and height and kid pax, but I hadn't considered the staggered shoulder benefit for two flying buffalos. Good idea!

post-53-13608072662774_thumb.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Now we are on to some of the more visible modifications. The tail surfaces on these airplanes are lacking in my opinion. The rudder is first.

post-36-13609756459823_thumb.jpg

A little bit Rans S7 and a little bit Highlander in the look...

Next comes the h-stab and elevator to match.

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted (edited)

Elevator! Here we go with the rest of the tail.

post-36-13615770400761_thumb.jpg

Here's a view from the end showing the new and the old...

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Here's a detail view of the new elevator with the trim tab. (Yeah! A real trim tab!)

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted (edited)

Elevator! Here we go with the rest of the tail.

post-36-13615770400761_thumb.jpg

Here's a view from the end showing the new and the old...

post-36-13615770368203_thumb.jpg

Here's a detail view of the new elevator with the trim tab. (Yeah! A real trim tab!)

Sometime an old spam-can driver can forget how things are supposed to be - My last trim tab was electric, but I want a manual tab on this one -

QUESTION: How do you run the control wire from the fuselage out to the center of the elevator to hook it to the trim tab horn? If you enclose it, then it has to be in place before covering......and if it is enclosed in the elevator with 20 feet extra sticking out, then how can you mount this 20 feet inside a fuselage when it too is already covered? I can see why they use electric, but dont want it.

ED in MO

edit: The only solution I can see is to mount it in the fuselage before covering, and run it on the out side of elevator after covering.

ED

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Wow, quite an increase. That should give it some elevator authority!

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Posted (edited)

Wow, quite an increase. That should give it some elevator authority!

IMO, you need to increase the HS about the same amount. Got notebooks full of calculations. Added 6" to each of mine, along with VS and rudder. But I didnt do the stretch.

The magic formula (check out a Cessna 150) is 60% HS, 40% Elevators, and 10% of elevator for trim tab.

Ailerons are needed to be 8 to 10% of wing area too - That is one reason the Plastic (is it called an Compair, or something) has not enough roll controll for crosswinds: The boat company that built this series didnt make the ailerons big enough.

I studied Darrol Stinton's "Designing Aeroplanes" book for years. He was an engineer and test pilot in England.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

The dimensions on this modification follow closely the design of the Highlander's control surfaces.

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Posted (edited)

The dimensions on this modification follow closely the design of the Highlander's control surfaces.

I suppose Highlander liked the about 50/50 HS/Elevator on the Piper? Whatever works!

Everything is a compromise between stability and agility -

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I suppose Highlander liked the about 50/50 HS/Elevator on the Piper? Whatever works!

Everything is a compromise between stability and agility -

ED in MO

That's about the ratio I'm at.

It may not look it exactly, but I am referencing the Wag-a-Bond prints qiuite heavily on this project. They are a very good reference.

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Posted (edited)

That's about the ratio I'm at.

It may not look it exactly, but I am referencing the Wag-a-Bond prints qiuite heavily on this project. They are a very good reference.

Cant argue with the design of a proven flyer - We should all know by now that the original Avid did not have enough tail, and neither did the Kitfoxes until about KF4, or 5?

I'm thinking that 50/50 may be good for slow planes, and when you reach a certain speed the 60/40 may be more stabile, or something like a 55/45 inbetween. Cant agrue with a T-craft or J3.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Don't hate me because I have a sexy tail...

post-36-13619370021051_thumb.jpg

(and a crappy cell phone photo)

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Posted

Don't hate me because I have a sexy tail...

post-36-13619370021051_thumb.jpg

(and a crappy cell phone photo)

Looks good to me - Dont think Piper will use it on the Cub tho! I rounded my corners thinking that they were easier to cover than square ones.

ED in MO

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Posted

Got some more done lately on the Mangy Fox. Here's a detail of the trim tab. I have decided to use the servo I have eliminating the whole actuator cable/linkage issue.

post-36-13625277664101_thumb.jpg

In this shot the tab is deflected to it's max, downward, making the fit look a little strange.

Now I need the meter and a 5-button stick grip.

Here is (maybe) a better shot of the full tail, showing the new outline and surfaces.

post-36-13625277685749_thumb.jpg

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Posted

Larry, something to think about... I would angle the bottom of the rudder up so it wont hit the ground WHEN the tail spring breaks. As it is now, it looks like it will smash the crap out of the bottom of the rudder if it ever hits the ground.

Even if the tail spring just take a whack and flattens out, right now the tail wheel is gonna eat it up.

I have broken tail springs as well as cleaned on all the way off on the PA-12 when I hit a little frozen something hidden in the grass. Flying on ski's, all you have to do is catch a snogo track just wrong and your gonna loose that tail wheel. I flattened mine out on a track a couple months ago that was hidden under 6" of nice fresh powder,,, but boy did it whack the crap out of me when the tail ski hit it just as it was settling into the snow. I had to look back to make sure the fuse didnt separate behind the wing and left me driving a flying wing... yeah, I hit it that darn hard and I never even saw a hint of it!

Other than that, I am loving the new tail feathers! I need that elevator for floats!!

:BC:

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Posted

Answers to your concerns:

1. The spring I am using is a custom 3-leaf, 1-1/2", "real" spring - not a half assed Avid/Kitfox excuse

2. Tail Ski

3. I don't live in Alaska

4. I've never heard of a Rans S7 or Highlander crashing the tail - This one is very similar

5. If I wreck it, I'll build another...

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Posted (edited)

Answers to your concerns:

1. The spring I am using is a custom 3-leaf, 1-1/2", "real" spring - not a half assed Avid/Kitfox excuse

2. Tail Ski

3. I don't live in Alaska

4. I've never heard of a Rans S7 or Highlander crashing the tail - This one is very similar

5. If I wreck it, I'll build another...

If you dont want rounded - just angle the bottom tube up to the first crosstube. Lots more clearance.

How tall is your rudder now?

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

I guess the photo doesn't show it but the rudder is angled up from the bottom of the plane.

The overall height from the tail wheel to the top is only 2" more than the oem rudder. I added some chord and the balance to the top along with canning the rod-end bearing hinges.

Edited by Av8r3400

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Posted (edited)

I guess the photo doesn't show it but the rudder is angled up from the bottom of the plane.

The overall height from the tail wheel to the top is only 2" more than the oem rudder. I added some chord and the balance to the top along with canning the rod-end bearing hinges.

I think mine is 52 or 53 high, and about 18 at bottom - Havent seen it since about September - Guess I will find it again next summer. I see a Bridgeport in the background of your photo - I've got thousands of hours driving them! I havent hooked up my lathe or mill since moving from Alaska - Would sell them, or use them, but everything is in the front of them and I am building plane there too.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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