my new power plant

37 posts in this topic

Posted

I got an order in for the new Arctic Cat 800 EFI engine.  It is dual plug etc.  The worst part will be adapting the gear box to it, but I dont think that will be too bad.  The dyno results show what should be nothing less than greattake off and climb performance....Cant wait to play with this engine on floats!  And if this does not do the trick, the 1000 EFI will turn 140 HP on take off...

219_stock_800_dyno_results_jpgea5fc3c553

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Posted

This order was shot down awhile back when the dealer failed to order it for me when he said he would..... however, I just punched the button on it again and ordered it.  Cant wait to start the install on this one!  Probably wont be till after Christmas before I get too heavy into the project but it will happen this winter for certain.... 120-130 hp on take off.... and should only weight about 8-10 pounds more than the 582.  Can you say thrust greater than weight..... oh baby, I do believe I have a chubby.

:beerchug:

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Posted

I'll be watching this closely!

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Posted

yeah.. my enthusiasm was dulled when I got the price back... seems it went from about 4800 to almost 7000.... oh well, its only money and ya cant take it with you :lol:

:beerchug:

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Posted

what ya going to do with your 582 ?

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Posted

put it in a buddies A model.  He has a 532 in it now, but we cant get the damn thing to cool.  after about 2 minutes WOT it will overheat no matter what we have done to it.  4 different radiator configurations, pulled the engine atleast 10 times looking for anything wrong etc... So I am going to drop it in his so he can fly... he has never even been able to go up in his plane since he bought it 3 or 4 yrs ago..

:beerchug:

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Posted

Leni,

when you get to working on that install, remember, many, many pictures.  That is going to be one wild Avid!  It's going to be fun coming up with a prop that can handle all that power.  An Ivo magnum maybe.  Or an HP Warp. Or one of those Russian props that the guy in Canada sells.  What fun!

Jack 

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Posted

going to try out an IVO medium.. should be able to handle it no problem.  remember the reason for staying with 2 stroke is weight.. the medium is several pounds more, and the magnum is even more than that.  The fun part will be the motor mounts and making a new cowling for it.  I know I am going to have issue trying to hide the pipe etc in the cowling so it may end up with more of a super cub type cowling on it.

:beerchug:

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Posted

going to try out an IVO medium.. should be able to handle it no problem.  remember the reason for staying with 2 stroke is weight.. the medium is several pounds more, and the magnum is even more than that.  The fun part will be the motor mounts and making a new cowling for it.  I know I am going to have issue trying to hide the pipe etc in the cowling so it may end up with more of a super cub type cowling on it.

:beerchug:

I'm sure it would be better to go with the lighter prop. With all that power the prop is sure going to get a workout. Is the engine much longer than the 582? The super cub cowl may be the easiest way to go when you try to stuff everything under it. Some pictures on the yahoo site on how one guy built a cub type cowl. Looks pretty good. Are you going to use a rotax box or some other kind?

Jack

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Posted

I'm sure it would be better to go with the lighter prop. With all that power the prop is sure going to get a workout. Is the engine much longer than the 582? The super cub cowl may be the easiest way to go when you try to stuff everything under it. Some pictures on the yahoo site on how one guy built a cub type cowl. Looks pretty good. Are you going to use a rotax box or some other kind?

Jack

Going to stick with the "C" box. The engine should not much, if any length.. a couple inches maybe. By eliminating the Electric Start, I can slide the engine closer to the firewall. With the EFI I have never had to pull more than twice even at -50 to start the 800 engine. I may end up adding the ES, but for now, I am planning on staying with recoil start. The way the engine was designed to "laydown" in the snowmachine chassis, the intake and exhaust is on the same side, with the exhaust crossing over the top of the engine. This is going to present some issues, but I am sure I can get it routed around under a larger cowl. Thats why they call it experimental :lol:

:beerchug:

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Posted

well it is not shiny and new, but will do the trick and is in my garage. Gonna be kinda a booger to get the gear box on, but doable. The crank is a larger taper so I will have to have the gear machined from a 31 to a 33mm taper but no big deal. For 120+ HP (easy to go 150) I can deal with the time it takes to adapt the gear box to it.

:BC:

post-2-12703460557573_thumb.jpg

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Posted

well it is not shiny and new, but will do the trick and is in my garage. Gonna be kinda a booger to get the gear box on, but doable. The crank is a larger taper so I will have to have the gear machined from a 31 to a 33mm taper but no big deal. For 120+ HP (easy to go 150) I can deal with the time it takes to adapt the gear box to it.

:BC:

That thing will probably hang off the prop like an RC,should be an animal.You gotta keep us updated on this deal.Randy

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Posted

Watching.

Glad to see you found a cheaper way out on the engine, $7k was pretty stiff even if the supplier co. name 'Muff Technologies' does bring a smile to your face. Spent many years sledding up in the Adirondack Park/Tug Hill Plateau area near Lowville where that engine was coming from. TONS of snow and the top notch groomed trail system went forever. Now a permit costs an arm and a leg, and it's patrolled by a bazillion snow-cops. One of my favorite memories was fishing out a loud-mouth buddy who put his brand new sled through the ice on Panther Lake after a little too much ethanol intake.

Ahh, the good ol' days. :)

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Posted

I was just at the guys place that is machining the adapter plate for me. He just completed his cub rebuild project after a little uhoh, and he is ready to get started on it. I was going to go with 2024 as suggested by a guy that has a done several conversion of engines to adapt the Rotax gear box to them.. My machinist buddy said I was stupid if I used anything other than a 70 series especially on floats for it better corrosion resistance and strength... so off to order the new aluminum today! Time for me to stop the summer time playing activities the few short days I am home and get back on this conversion!

:BC:

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Posted

Ykes, how time gets away from us! I guess it has been alot longer that this project was shelved than I thought. At any rate, the guy that was going to build the plate never got around to it, so I turned it over to the machinist here at work and he is going to have it done for me so I can bring it home when I get off this hitch. It is time for this project to get moved up the ladder of importance as float season is right around the corner! hoping to have the engine bolted to a gear box and on the test stand this time home! If I get really lucky I may get a base line run completed so I will have something to base the performance off of for the stock versus the modified pipe that I will have to do to get it under the cowling. Should be a fun project and hopefully give me the results I am expecting!

post-2-13632856654848_thumb.jpg

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Posted

Get er dun! I am coming up on rebuild and NEED more power :)

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Posted

Ykes, how time gets away from us! I guess it has been alot longer that this project was shelved than I thought. At any rate, the guy that was going to build the plate never got around to it, so I turned it over to the machinist here at work and he is going to have it done for me so I can bring it home when I get off this hitch. It is time for this project to get moved up the ladder of importance as float season is right around the corner! hoping to have the engine bolted to a gear box and on the test stand this time home! If I get really lucky I may get a base line run completed so I will have something to base the performance off of for the stock versus the modified pipe that I will have to do to get it under the cowling. Should be a fun project and hopefully give me the results I am expecting!

Leni, You said the pipe was on top, and you had to modify or make new one - I was wondering, if you have EFI, then you could modify your mount and flip the redrive, and mount this upside down or like a Kitfox, or even sideways - takes lots of luck or engineering and testing to get a good pipe for a 2-stroke.

Yes, the 4-strokes are great - I can run strait pipes or short glasspaks, or whatever, and it dont mind.

Ed in MO

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Posted

Leni, You said the pipe was on top, and you had to modify or make new one - I was wondering, if you have EFI, then you could modify your mount and flip the redrive, and mount this upside down or like a Kitfox, or even sideways - takes lots of luck or engineering and testing to get a good pipe for a 2-stroke.

Yes, the 4-strokes are great - I can run strait pipes or short glasspaks, or whatever, and it dont mind.

Ed in MO

The pipe for the sled runs over the top of the engine as the cylinders are layed back at and angle. The exhaust and intake are on the same side too. I have a couple of stock exhaust systems for the 800 so that is why I was going to use a stock system on the test stand to set the base line, then cut and twist the exhaust around to try and stuff it inside the cowling without loosing any RPM from the baseline runs. I think it can be done but I may have to make a new cowling ala super cub style. Aluminum is easy to work with if I have to go that route.

In order to keep the thrust line and the cowling height that I have now (avid cowlings are lower and give much better visibility over the nose) I will have to mount the engine inverted just as it is now in the Avid. I dont see this being an issue sans a few things I will have to deal with on the power valve cables so they dont get gummed up with the old oil. I think I have a good plan for those, and it may even be a non issue, but I do have a plan if they do start sticking. I really wish I had a dyno and a good 2 stroke exhaust guy close to play with this. I want the stock super smooth, linear power that this engine exhibits in the sled. It is like an electric motor. super smooth and linear with no hard hitting "pipey" spots.

:BC:

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Posted

The pipe for the sled runs over the top of the engine as the cylinders are layed back at and angle. The exhaust and intake are on the same side too. I have a couple of stock exhaust systems for the 800 so that is why I was going to use a stock system on the test stand to set the base line, then cut and twist the exhaust around to try and stuff it inside the cowling without loosing any RPM from the baseline runs. I think it can be done but I may have to make a new cowling ala super cub style. Aluminum is easy to work with if I have to go that route.

In order to keep the thrust line and the cowling height that I have now (avid cowlings are lower and give much better visibility over the nose) I will have to mount the engine inverted just as it is now in the Avid. I dont see this being an issue sans a few things I will have to deal with on the power valve cables so they dont get gummed up with the old oil. I think I have a good plan for those, and it may even be a non issue, but I do have a plan if they do start sticking. I really wish I had a dyno and a good 2 stroke exhaust guy close to play with this. I want the stock super smooth, linear power that this engine exhibits in the sled. It is like an electric motor. super smooth and linear with no hard hitting "pipey" spots.

:BC:/>

This will be a great engine for vertical flight. :o

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Posted

This will be a great engine for vertical flight. :o/>

You could put a tilt-mechanism into the engine mount and have VTOL..........:lol:

Ed

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Posted

I am just hoping to be able to pull 430-450 pounds of static thrust. If I can get close to that I will be a happy camper!

:BC:

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Posted

I am just hoping to be able to pull 430-450 pounds of static thrust. If I can get close to that I will be a happy camper!

:BC:/>

We never studied static thrust in school - Do you measure that by putting a pull scale on the tail and WOT?

Ed in MO

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Posted

The best I have seen is running the rope from the strut attach points, over the tail, to a fixed point with the scale in between. A good 582 setup should be pulling around 350# Of course, the numbers are going to depend on the rolling load, friction etc. I am hoping I can come up with something clever to measure the strain on the test stand to get every thing dialed in. Not sure if that will be the stand on wheels or what yet.

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

The best I have seen is running the rope from the strut attach points, over the tail, to a fixed point with the scale in between. A good 582 setup should be pulling around 350# Of course, the numbers are going to depend on the rolling load, friction etc. I am hoping I can come up with something clever to measure the strain on the test stand to get every thing dialed in. Not sure if that will be the stand on wheels or what yet.

:BC:/>/>/>

I would suppose that the most accurate would be to have a long rope or chain to something on the outside, like a post or truck that wouldnt block the wind from the prop - dont believe inside a garage or hanger would give an accurate reading, because of the reverse winds? Or, is that important?

we chained tails to a truck at UAA to test rebuilt engines after we installed them in planes, although we had test stands inside.

I have never seen any figures for the Soob / Warp Drive.

Ed in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I just had the plane tied off to the truck when I did the engine break in.. I will do the same for the engine tests before I put it on the plane.

:BC:

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