VW Engines

[TheDeltaFox 0]

I know i'm probably opening a can of worms on this one but....

I have the oppurtinty to purchase a 1600cc and a 2200cc(fuel injected) vw engine for a really really good price. This brings me to ask the question of whether anyone here is using a VW engine or knows anyone who is and how is that working out for them. I'm curious about installed weight/weight and balance issues, static thrust if not using a redrive for a bigger prop, reliability and well anything I can learn about them. I was thinking to pick up the 1600 at least for a future project i've always wanted to build. The 2200 with a redrive and 70" prop should pull like a bugger.

I see that Great Plains offers some VW packages that they advertise will work on AVIDs and even sell engine mounts. I'd like to get some opinions and make an informed decision before i lay down any cash.

Thanks

Darcy

[Trackwelder 12]

I had looked at the VW conversions myself, hopeing to find a good relatively inexpensive 4 stroke but the vw is a bit on the heavy side. I know that there are subarus flying out there, but I believe the weight to be real close, and the horsepower is better. What model of avid are you planning on putting it in?

[TheDeltaFox 0]

Its a MK IV. I'm still at the curious stage but will most likely pick up the engine anyways. The price is too low to pass up the engine even it it ends up in another project. I might call Great Plains and see what it would take to do the conversion.

Weight is the big issue. I love how this thing jumped in the air and climbed with the 582 so i really don't want to pack the weight on it. Although it might be good to keep the VW on the shelf in case the Rotax does what its famous for

[C5Engineer 1170]

Weight is a big killer to performance. I just had a guy call me this week who I met through some networking with an early model Kitfox. He's taking his Jab 2200 OFF of it and going to a 582. He flew it 500 hours with a 532 before the Jab and said the performance is total crap with the Jab on it. That says alot going from a $12,000 4 stroke back to a 582!! Dean told me for every pound you add to an Avid you lose 6fpm climb.

[akflyer 1427]

I was pretty damn impressed with Randys Fat Avid with the Suby in it. He could get off the ground damn near as quick as I could, but I got him in cruise. It kinda sucked flying with him at -20 this winter cause for me to cruise with him I was throttle back to 54-5500 and was not making much heat on the muffler but he had a fuel burn about half what mine was! You can get some serious range outta the Avid at 3 GPH.

One day hopefully soon I will be back in the air and testing out a new engine... Good thing I have not held my breath on that one though!

As far as the VW.. I love my 2110 stroker in my sand rail, but I would never hang it on the nose of the plane. I ahve not heard any happy Avid or kitfox owners who put a VW on the nose, they have all gone to something else pretty quickly due to the performance issues.

[SuberAvid 617]

I was pretty damn impressed with Randys Fat Avid with the Suby in it. He could get off the ground damn near as quick as I could, but I got him in cruise. It kinda sucked flying with him at -20 this winter cause for me to cruise with him I was throttle back to 54-5500 and was not making much heat on the muffler but he had a fuel burn about half what mine was! You can get some serious range outta the Avid at 3 GPH.

One day hopefully soon I will be back in the air and testing out a new engine... Good thing I have not held my breath on that one though!

As far as the VW.. I love my 2110 stroker in my sand rail, but I would never hang it on the nose of the plane. I ahve not heard any happy Avid or kitfox owners who put a VW on the nose, they have all gone to something else pretty quickly due to the performance issues.

Leni, I flew to Deep Creek and back a few weekends ago to meet some friends and landed in the field by their cabin. I was not topped of when I left and I still had about 12 gallons in the tanks when I got home.

[TheDeltaFox 0]

Thanks for the input. I think i'll just keep saving the nickels and dimes till i'm ready to cut a check for the 912.

[TheDeltaFox 0]

Ok i'm back on the VW topic. I thought i'd find a cheap 912 by now but that's not the case.

Has anyone or does anyone know of someone running the vw with a reduction drive. From my research (web browsing) it seems like the vw won't give a great amount of thrust unless a reduction drive is used.

I'm sure this will increase the weight to the 170-180 installed weight. Making it 80 lbs heavier up front than the 582 thats on it now.

I've decided to hold on to the Avid for a while and fly the heck out of it cause working on the other plane project has me ever looking skywards. I fly almost exclusively by myself and am kicking my butt for not putting in a second wing tank when i recovered the one wing. I live in the Alberta prairies so no worries about needing to out climb a mountain...yet. Less fuel burn and more range along with a 4 stroke so i can go touring around more than 40 miles away from home would be nice.

So i know i'm probably headed down the path others have taken then switched but i'm most likely going to try it. I'm thinking a roughly 70 hp vw with redrive and the battery in the far back for W&B.

I know some of you swear by the 582 but alas i'm not a 2 stroke person and most likely never will be. To those of you who are, i tip my hat.

Darcy

[birddog486 21]

Unless your making your own mount and cowl, I was told the VW with redrive woun't fit inside due to moving the thrust line.

Ok i'm back on the VW topic. I thought i'd find a cheap 912 by now but that's not the case.

Has anyone or does anyone know of someone running the vw with a reduction drive. From my research (web browsing) it seems like the vw won't give a great amount of thrust unless a reduction drive is used.

I'm sure this will increase the weight to the 170-180 installed weight. Making it 80 lbs heavier up front than the 582 thats on it now.

I've decided to hold on to the Avid for a while and fly the heck out of it cause working on the other plane project has me ever looking skywards. I fly almost exclusively by myself and am kicking my butt for not putting in a second wing tank when i recovered the one wing. I live in the Alberta prairies so no worries about needing to out climb a mountain...yet. Less fuel burn and more range along with a 4 stroke so i can go touring around more than 40 miles away from home would be nice.

So i know i'm probably headed down the path others have taken then switched but i'm most likely going to try it. I'm thinking a roughly 70 hp vw with redrive and the battery in the far back for W&B.

I know some of you swear by the 582 but alas i'm not a 2 stroke person and most likely never will be. To those of you who are, i tip my hat.

Darcy

Edited 17 Apr 2012 by birddog486

[Av8r3400 1179]

A redrive VW is more realistically like 200-220#.

[TheDeltaFox 0]

A redrive VW is more realistically like 200-220#.

Yup, i'm up poop creek for using a vw and a redrive. After looking into it more you're right. It would be at least 200# and probably more. That's Subaru territory at that point and a lot of weight on the nose.

As much as I wish for a 4 stroke, there looks like nothing is going to come close to the old 582 for HP/thrust for anywhere near the same weight.

I guess i'll keep on truckin with the 582 and saving till the right engine comes up for sale. Thanks for saving me a pile of work, cash and a headache.

[EDMO 1078]

Yup, i'm up poop creek for using a vw and a redrive. After looking into it more you're right. It would be at least 200# and probably more. That's Subaru territory at that point and a lot of weight on the nose.

As much as I wish for a 4 stroke, there looks like nothing is going to come close to the old 582 for HP/thrust for anywhere near the same weight.

I guess i'll keep on truckin with the 582 and saving till the right engine comes up for sale. Thanks for saving me a pile of work, cash and a headache.

I was on another site and one guy there had a Reductions EA-81, 100 hp, with Warp Drive prop for sale for $2500 (on E-Bay???) Thats a bargain, and your MK 4 can handle it, IMO

ED in MO

[SuberAvid 617]

I am pretty pleased with my Subaru but I don't know if would be as good a fit for a stock Avid. I don't think there is any way to shift enough weight to the rear without having to add additional weight on the tail spring. I think that would also make it handle a bit weird to have weight masses at the ends of the fusalage versus a more centered mass and in a short fusalage with less rudder and elevator leverage. A buddy of mine had a MK IV with a subaru in it on Aerocet amphibious floats; we never flew it bacause he didn't have a license and I don't have any float experience but it had a 5 pound weght in the tail of each float plus a 5 lb weight on the tail spring. My Avid+ is 18" longer than the MK IV with the battery and ELT at the rear of the cargo area and I still have to have a min of 10lb of cargo in my rear cargo area to be in CG range and that is 6 feet behind the seat truss. With the MK IV you would have to add pure ballast weight in the tail.

[EDMO 1078]

I am pretty pleased with my Subaru but I don't know if would be as good a fit for a stock Avid. I don't think there is any way to shift enough weight to the rear without having to add additional weight on the tail spring. I think that would also make it handle a bit weird to have weight masses at the ends of the fusalage versus a more centered mass and in a short fusalage with less rudder and elevator leverage. A buddy of mine had a MK IV with a subaru in it on Aerocet amphibious floats; we never flew it bacause he didn't have a license and I don't have any float experience but it had a 5 pound weght in the tail of each float plus a 5 lb weight on the tail spring. My Avid+ is 18" longer than the MK IV with the battery and ELT at the rear of the cargo area and I still have to have a min of 10lb of cargo in my rear cargo area to be in CG range and that is 6 feet behind the seat truss. With the MK IV you would have to add pure ballast weight in the tail.

Makes me wonder how in the world my friend managed his KF1 with a NSI Turbo EA-81. The only ballast that I saw was a car battery located about three feet from the tail, but he had made the tailfeathers larger - but not as large as the KF4.

Ed in MO