Airdale Wide Gear

[BryceKat 125]

Hi Guys,

Is anyone using Airdale's wide gear with the bungee cords? I know Airdale has the new cub type wide gear that does not use bungees, those are not what i'm referring to. My reason for asking is that i acquired a set of the original style wide gear, but i'm concerned of the extra stress, if any, they will put on the seat truss. My landings are decent, but i'm no Bob Hoover! Thanks, Bryce

[akflyer 1427]

I have the wide gear on mine, we also put it on my brothers KF II and akflyerbobs KF I. I put 4130 plate reinforcements on my bungee trusses, and Bob and my brother put plywood triangles in thier bungee trusses (I think). I have beat the crap out of mine and have not messed up the trusses.

The wide gear is a GREAT improvement over the standard gear!!!! Infact, I am certain that it is the only reason I did not fold up a gear last year when my tail wheel came unlocked and my brakes could not hold me ( I then did a brake upgrade) and I did a lil ground loop on a narrow gravel strip.

If you are not familiar with the plywood gussets, you just cut our triagles of aircraft ply and use the structural adhesive and fill in the areas across the front of the bungee truss. It adds a ton of strength for a very very small weight gain!

[BryceKat 125]

Thanks Leni. That's what i needed to know. I added the webbing in the seat truss awhile back. Did you use the same diameter bungee and how many loops do you use? Or did you use the same amount as on the standard gear? Bryce

[akflyer 1427]

Thanks Leni. That's what i needed to know. I added the webbing in the seat truss awhile back. Did you use the same diameter bungee and how many loops do you use? Or did you use the same amount as on the standard gear? Bryce

The wide gear came with heavier bungee and a couple more wraps if I remember right. Pretty sure I have 8 wraps on mine, but I will have to double check when I get home. FWIW, I am ready to sell my wide bungee gear and put the cub style on it as it will give me more room to put a belly pod on. That and my plane was wrecked twice that I know of by the previous owner cause the gear failed where the bungee wraps around. When I got the new wide gear, I ran a tube inside the tube that the bungees wrap around to stop this from happeneing again, I hope! so far so good, and every few weeks I get underneath and use a screwdriver to slip the bungees over so I can get a good look at the weld to see if it is starting to crack out. so far so good!

[BryceKat 125]

I have 8 wraps of i think 1/2" or 3/8" bungee. Leni, if you could let me know what bungees come with those gear and # of wraps that would be great. Did the guy wreck the plane using the wide gear or standard? Thanks, Bryce

[akflyer 1427]

I have 8 wraps of i think 1/2" or 3/8" bungee. Leni, if you could let me know what bungees come with those gear and # of wraps that would be great. Did the guy wreck the plane using the wide gear or standard? Thanks, Bryce

Standard... Twice the gear leg busted right at the toe of the weld where the 3rd leg comes up from the gear right where the bungee wraps around the gear. Of course the safety cable is also right around that part of the gear so when it breaks, you have no safety cable either!

I was passenger when my brothers KF II did the same damn thing! We only went on the nose before falling back over right side up, but that was enough for both of us to go to the wide/heady duty gear.

[BryceKat 125]

Leni,

When those welds broke, had ya'll been landing on gravel bars or other rough fields or was it just from normal use? Thanks, Bryce

[akflyer 1427]

Leni,

When those welds broke, had ya'll been landing on gravel bars or other rough fields or was it just from normal use? Thanks, Bryce

Some of both. When I posted the pics up on the Kitfox list, there were several guys that chimed in and said they had the same thing happen to them.

My Brothers KF had only been flown off grass strips prior to landing on one gravel strip that folded it up. It had been cracked for quite awhile.

LOTS of guys have MANY MANY hundreds and thousands of hours on the stock gear with no issues so this is not a panic item, just something to be aware of, and take a look at on a routine basis. There are too many that have failed to not say it warrants looking at and putting on your checklist, but damn sure not enough to say toss the gear and go grove or the spring gear (as of yet, the spring gear is really un-proven in the back country getting the shit beat out of it but I am sure that will change VERY soon!)

[dholly 718]

Bryce,

I have the Airdale W.I.B. on my Avid+ as well. It isn't flying yet so I can't help much there, but I do have some thoughts on this topic.

First, I agree the seat truss stiffener mod is mandatory if you're going to use either of the bungee gear options (Avid oem or Airdale W.I.B.). It stands to reason that the longer legs and wider track will increase the force imparted on the seat truss when bottoming out the bungees or safety cables.

Secondly, when using any of the wider bungee or spring gear options, I would strongly recommend doing the same mod on the side seat trusses above the attach brackets as well. With any increase in gear width, the vertical force endured in those less-than-perfect pancake or hard drop style landings will surely be increased at the side longerons as well.

Third, regardless of which gear you use, do not underestimate the increased forces imparted on the longer gear legs horizontally. Grove proponents push the spring gear in spite of its weight penalty, in part, because it eliminates the possibility of bending the seat truss. But it attaches to the fuselage in such a way that actually increases the potential for damage to the side longerons in the attach bracket area, IMHO.

Should you doubt that stiffeners in the side truss are a good idea, I offer a couple pics of my KF-III showing what happens when you drop a Grove gear leg into a drainage ditch at about 50mph. I've often wondered what would have happened with reinforced side trusses and the W.I.B. gear. Maybe just sheared the leg or ripped the attach brackets off, dunno, but either might have been less expensive than the twisted fuse I ended up with.

[akflyer 1427]

Once again, Doug offers GREAT advise!

I put stiffer plates of each side of my fuse from the firewall to the cluster behind the strut attach point. My fuse was a little bent in this area so after straightening, I added the plates on each side to keep this from happening again. I figured 2 pounds worth of plates was alot better than a gear leg shoved up my ass out in the sticks somewhere. Could be just me, but I thought it was a good trade off

It would be very easy to add the ply gussets in this area also on a completed and covered flying ariframe. A little time spent with card board templates, 30 minutes transfering them and cutting them out of ply, and about an hour to glue them all in and you have a substatially tougher gear box area! Dont forget to let the glue cure for 24 hrs!

http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/14-my-mod-c/page__view__findpost__p__27

That should show you the plates I did on the sides out of 4130 plate.

[BryceKat 125]

Thanks you guys. That's ahellofagood idea adding stiffeners/gusssets to the longerons. Also preflighting the gear truss and gear leg makes alotofgood sense! Bryce

[BryceKat 125]

Hi Leni,

What's the diameter on the bungees ? Thanks, Bryce

[akflyer 1427]

Hi Leni,

What's the diameter on the bungees ? Thanks, Bryce

I am not sure on that one Bryce. I am at work now and won't be home for a couple weeks to measure them for ya. A call to Airdale should fix you up though. I know you have to go to heavier bungees with the wide gear.

[Trackwelder 12]

I am not sure on that one Bryce. I am at work now and won't be home for a couple weeks to measure them for ya. A call to Airdale should fix you up though. I know you have to go to heavier bungees with the wide gear.

1/2 inch

[BryceKat 125]

1/2 inch

thanks Trackelder, sure do appreciate it!

[dholly 718]

Also, W.I.B. bungees are 100" long and use 8 full wraps.

[IFMT 36]

I have a question about how many wraps on the 100 inch bungee. I have read to put 8 full wraps. Does this mean counting the wraps on the bottom around the gear? If so 8 wraps around the bottom and back to the "post" makes for 7 wraps over the seat truss. Also does anyone know if a complete heavy duty seat truss is available from airdale? Mines a little bent. Bad landing.