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One of my boys and my C build.

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Posted (edited)

Great Plains makes VWs with redrives, and has for many years.

But, again I will point out the 800 pound gorilla - Avid and later Kitfox have been around for nearly 30 years, with thousands of flying aircraft. Redrive VWs have been around at least that long too. If they worked on these planes, there would be at least some of them flying. There are, in fact, virtually zero flying.

If I was 50 or more years younger, I would really be looking for developments in the Electric motors and batteries for the plane - Well, if I was that young, I would probably be looking at some plastic bird too.......not something built like a 1930's Taylor/Piper.

What's wrong with an antique "airplane engine" to go with the antique tube & fabric? They are lighter than a Corvair or Soob, VW with redrives.

And now you can get modern electronic ignition that is more dependable than the old mags.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Great Plains makes VWs with redrives, and has for many years.

But, again I will point out the 800 pound gorilla - Avid and later Kitfox have been around for nearly 30 years, with thousands of flying aircraft. Redrive VWs have been around at least that long too. If they worked on these planes, there would be at least some of them flying. There are, in fact, virtually zero flying.

I agree, there has to be a reason for that. We are not the first ones to think of using the VW's in the avids; they were trying them in the old Avid news letters I have read. For some reason they have just not worked out well on these planes and it seems like it must be difficult to get them to cool well at the slow speeds and they possibly don't provide the power to weight and reliability that you would expect. I am probably not the best one to discuss experimenting in the purest form; I like to use something that is pretty well proven if possible and prefer to learn from others when I can. I like to fly, and have a hard time breathing plus I sweat a lot when my engine doesn't run.

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Posted

Randy,

Dave Johnson who made the "Reductions" conversions told me that the belt would go 500 hours, and one guy had over 500 on his with almost no wear. Main thing to look for is cracks in the outer cover. He didnt use Gates. I have the name of the maker.

I dont even look at Eggenfeldner - but that is my bias. Ram or RFI and some other are better sources IMO. (and cheaper than Stratus). Dave died, and there is no Reductions company now.

There is a company that makes VW with Redrives - it was in SA or Kitplanes a while back.

ED in MO

Ed,

The Stratus manual specified 300 hour replacement time for the redrive belt is probably very conservative. Mine shows absolutely no indication of wear or aging at 150+ hours but they are relatively cheap at around $75 so not too big a deal to replace. I think 500 hours is probably not out of the question if you want to go there. I read of a Sratus redrive that had a belt failure when they used to run two narrower belts on the redrive rather than a single wide one. The failure took out both belts but the owner admitted that he had over 1000 hours and a lot of years on the belts. If I remember correctly they had never been changed out. The belt I have on mine is a Jacobs.

There are probably other good redrive manufacturers; I don't know of their track records but a lot of gyros run EA81's so you can probably vett them out. All I know is the Stratus drives are very well designed. I didn't understand the importance of the additional crank end bearing to prevent side load on the crank (to prevent crank breaking) and the cams on the prop shaft to allow you to align the pulley so the belt tracks in the center.

I have a very pretty looking redrive for sale a lot less than I have in it if anyone wants to work with it. A person probably could get the tracking figured out with shims if you worked at it. I think it is an RFI but not sure.

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Posted

Wished I had time to get back to posting other accomplishments on this plane but just time for the present.

The one wing tanks had a couple small issues due to the excursion into that tree. Anyway, we removed the top sheet, verified all is well inside other than some rattling Plexus adhesive used to adhere the top sheet. (Was also some crazing in the top sheet.

We have the materials needed to replace the top sheet. Local fiberglass place looked all over and made recommendations. This shop makes a fiberglass aircraft being sold all over the world, so I guess they know what they are talking about.

We bought a new top sheet from them, which they use in their wing tanks. Too bad, it's enough to redo both tanks, which we might do for a couple reasons. Thus, I ave a couple questions.

We'll be salvaging the cap fitting(s) for for reuse in the repaired tank. These filler caps are both close to the root end of the tank. With some dihedral in the wing, would there be any reason for not moving that filler some distance outward to allow a bit more fuel? I know one would not want to take all air from the tanks and really "top it off", but what about half way out or just leave where they are?

We talked about taking some washout out of the wings on rebuild. Kind of hard with the 2" WO built into these tanks. The tank we have open, we can put it where ever we want. If we redo the other tank, we could put the washout where ever we want. Would it be worth doing the other tanks and going to 1" in the wash out?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Dale

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Posted (edited)

Wished I had time to get back to posting other accomplishments on this plane but just time for the present.

The one wing tanks had a couple small issues due to the excursion into that tree. Anyway, we removed the top sheet, verified all is well inside other than some rattling Plexus adhesive used to adhere the top sheet. (Was also some crazing in the top sheet.

We have the materials needed to replace the top sheet. Local fiberglass place looked all over and made recommendations. This shop makes a fiberglass aircraft being sold all over the world, so I guess they know what they are talking about.

We bought a new top sheet from them, which they use in their wing tanks. Too bad, it's enough to redo both tanks, which we might do for a couple reasons. Thus, I ave a couple questions.

We'll be salvaging the cap fitting(s) for for reuse in the repaired tank. These filler caps are both close to the root end of the tank. With some dihedral in the wing, would there be any reason for not moving that filler some distance outward to allow a bit more fuel? I know one would not want to take all air from the tanks and really "top it off", but what about half way out or just leave where they are?

We talked about taking some washout out of the wings on rebuild. Kind of hard with the 2" WO built into these tanks. The tank we have open, we can put it where ever we want. If we redo the other tank, we could put the washout where ever we want. Would it be worth doing the other tanks and going to 1" in the wash out?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Dale

From a builder who always has 2 cents worth (seems like no-sense at times)

The dihedral is probably not as much concern as the leakage when wings are folded and point downhill.

Your wings will rock a lot more than the dihedral.

With the plane leveled, If you drop a plumbline or level from the rear crossover attach tube center, then that should be the center of your bottom strut fitting hole.

1/2 inch of washout is supposed to give you a little more cruise - but is it worth the work? You decide.

HOPE this helpsd - now wait for some more "intelligent?" answers.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

If I ever have my wings open again, they will go to 1/2" washout. The 2" in there now is stupid and leave alot of stol and cruise on the table.

:BC:

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Posted (edited)

From a builder who always has 2 cents worth (seems like no-sense at times)

The dihedral is probably not as much concern as the leakage when wings are folded and point downhill.

Your wings will rock a lot more than the dihedral.

With the plane leveled, If you drop a plumbline or level from the rear crossover attach tube center, then that should be the center of your bottom strut fitting hole.

1/2 inch of washout is supposed to give you a little more cruise - but is it worth the work? You decide.

HOPE this helpsd - now wait for some more "intelligent?" answers.

ED in MO

Thanks Ed. Didn't think about the caps on the other end coupled with folded wings and the tail on the ground. That's probably the best reason to leave them where they are.

Looked at dropping a plumb line from the rear carry though/wing attach tube down to the strut attach but there is that vertical tube of the rear door opening that blocks one from doing such. May have to explore other meas of lining it up, similar to what you sate but get around that vertical tube.

AK, Will be a hard call as to if it's worth it to open the other wing tank and take some the 2" washout from it. You say if you open your wings again you will go to 1/2". Can that be done with wings tanks as is?

Edited by C150L

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Ed. Didn't think about the caps on the other end coupled with folded wings and the tail on the ground. That's probably the best reason to leave them where they are.

Looked at dropping a plumb line from the rear carry though/wing attach tube down to the strut attach but there is that vertical tube of the rear door opening that blocks one from doing such. May have to explore other meas of lining it up, similar to what you sate but get around that vertical tube.

AK, Will be a hard call as to if it's worth it to open the other wing tank and take some the 2" washout from it. You say if you open your wings again you will go to 1/2". Can that be done with wings tanks as is?

I was asking Joey why his vent tubes on the caps stuck up so high - he told me it was to prevent overflow when wings were folded. Kitfox says to only fold them with 1/2 tanks, but that is not always practical.

BTW: On gas caps - better to buy the UNVENTED and add the tubes to them - Otherwise, you need to add epoxy to block the internal vents to keep them from leaking when folded, and maybe while flying - IMO.

Sorry, I forgot that fuselage tube might be in the way for locating the lower fittings. Try making a couple of spacers or something that extends the attach tube hole out, and.........? Maybe you can get some measurements from another Avid?

Ed in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted (edited)

On the washout and wing tanks - Dont know if this will work for you, but - my outer edge of tank stuck up above the rib next to it, so I just added another ribcap on top of the original so fabric clears tank.

Donno why Avid put fiberglas over top of tank and Kitfox dont? But you should be able to work this out.

Mine was because I have two tanks in each wing - I still have the original 1 3/4 washout, but wish I didnt.

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

Thanks Ed. Didn't think about the caps on the other end coupled with folded wings and the tail on the ground. That's probably the best reason to leave them where they are.

My wheels turn slow - but they keep on turning - Dont understand why your caps are inboard and all other I have seen are outboard - are you sure that the tanks have not been put on the wrong wing?????????

ED in MO

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Posted

On the washout and wing tanks - Dont know if this will work for you, but - my outer edge of tank stuck up above the rib next to it, so I just added another ribcap on top of the original so fabric clears tank.

Donno why Avid put fiberglas over top of tank and Kitfox dont? But you should be able to work this out.

Mine was because I have two tanks in each wing - I still have the original 1 3/4 washout, but wish I didnt.

ED in MO

Fiberglass over top of tank? You mean tanks, another fiberglass wing top cover instead of just fabric over the tanks? This Avid just had fabric over the tank.

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Posted

Fiberglass over top of tank? You mean tanks, another fiberglass wing top cover instead of just fabric over the tanks? This Avid just had fabric over the tank.

I am no expert on Avids - Just have the Magnum manual - they install the tank and THEN put a fiberglas cover over it - looks crazy to me - this is not the fiberglas leading edge either - Didnt know if other Avids did it.

I am Kitfox builder.

ED in MO

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My wheels turn slow - but they keep on turning - Dont understand why your caps are inboard and all other I have seen are outboard - are you sure that the tanks have not been put on the wrong wing?????????

ED in MO

Couldn't be wrong wing, the twist in the tanks for washout would be the wrong way, right?

The one tank is still in the assembled wing. We have not broke that one down yet. Cap in on the inside of the wing. Wonder if I have a pic showing.

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Posted

I am no expert on Avids - Just have the Magnum manual - they install the tank and THEN put a fiberglas cover over it - looks crazy to me - this is not the fiberglas leading edge either - Didnt know if other Avids did it.

I am Kitfox builder.

ED in MO

Gotchca. Avid builder or not, all ideas, thoughts and suggestions appreciated. Too bad one can not use every thought/suggestion offered. Gives one somethings to think about though.

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Posted (edited)

Couldn't be wrong wing, the twist in the tanks for washout would be the wrong way, right?

The one tank is still in the assembled wing. We have not broke that one down yet. Cap in on the inside of the wing. Wonder if I have a pic showing.

Donno - You need to talk more to Avid builders rather than me on this.

There is always a place for innovation in any of this.

Be thankful that we are not "certified", then we would have to use part number XXXXX and not modify!

Or, pay $$$$$ for an STC..!

ED in MO

Edited by Ed In Missouri

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Posted

I am no expert on Avids - Just have the Magnum manual - they install the tank and THEN put a fiberglas cover over it - looks crazy to me - this is not the fiberglas leading edge either - Didnt know if other Avids did it.

I am Kitfox builder.

ED in MO

Think they did this on the TIP tanks too - Would have to read manual again.

Dont make sense to me - Neither do tip tanks!

ED in MO

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Posted

OLD ED forgot to take his memory pill this morning.

The strut fitting goes onto the tube behind the seat on floor - Duh!

I have this tube from a wrecked Avid - They are a lot different than a Kitfox.

Can send it to you if you want it.

Just need address and postage.

ED in MO

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Posted

Thanks for the offer Ed but about all we need yet on the fuse is to position the strut attach fittings and weld them up. We already fabricated new parts.

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Posted

Thanks for the offer Ed but about all we need yet on the fuse is to position the strut attach fittings and weld them up. We already fabricated new parts.

Any updates? You bout got that bird wrapped up an ready to fly yet :dunno:

:BC:

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Posted

Any updates? You bout got that bird wrapped up an ready to fly yet :dunno:/>

:BC:/>

Funny AK. Sorry but long way to go yet. Working on fitting up and glueing the first wing, then need to break down and rebuild other wing yet, then close to covering. Also need to put this first wings gas tank back together. We peeled off top sheet for minor inside repairs and cleanup. (That tree messed it up a bit.

OH ya, need to position and weld strut attach points to the fuse.

I should try and get some updates/pix up here again soon. SSSOOOO many things to do.

Dale

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Posted

Maybe I should search, but will ask first.

We have our first wing glued up (except for the fuel tank) but something has had me wondering. This was a STOL wing, with one short rib between each long rib. In these STOL wings, the drag tubes (diag braces)run from the rear spar, through the center hole in the short rib (barely) then attach next to the next long rib on the front spar.

In the HH STOL wings we're making, there are 2 short ribs between each set of long ribs. Per the Avid (and Mohawk) build manuals, the drag tubes run the same way only they run through those 2 short ribs. Problem is, the tube runs through/into the vertical web of the rib.

Anyone have thoughts or knowledge of alternatives which would eliminate the need to route these drag tubes so far into that vertical web of the rib?

Any thoughts/suggestions always appreciated.

Thanks,

Dale

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Posted

Another question but one above is more urgent.

We relocated the mixer to under the LH seat as seen in man a photo here and elsewhere. In many of those photos seen on the net, it appears that the push/pull cables cross, such that the RH bell crank in the mixer goes to the left flapperon and vice versa.

Well, if such is the case, the arms which the linkages hook to on the end of our (found) flaperons are mounted off the front (I think) of the flaperon tube. Thus, cris crossing of the cables will make the flaperons move opposite the direction they should. Easy fix if we swap those arms and have the cable hook up behind the flaperon. (Keep in mind, I might have the current config of the arm on the end of the flaperon tube backwards from actual as I have not looked at them recently.)

If anything above in those situation seems correct or familiar, let me take it a bit further. If we leave as is and do not cross the cables, the flap handle will be pulled up/back to lower the flaperons. If we swap the flap control arms, cross the cables, then it appears the flap handle will be moved forward/down to lower.

Not sure the reason for crossing those control cables if that is what I've seen in some pictures. Only thing I could think of, those push/pull cables have more capacity to pull than push and maybe it's preferable to pull a flaperon down VS the cable pushing it down.

Gosh, must sound like I'm lost in this wing/control system. Not necessarily, been a while since I looked into these things and have not given a lot of thought for some time now.

Again, thanks for any input with this one.

Dale

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Posted

Hi Dale-

I just used a sanding drum on a dremel to notch the rib web to allow for the drag tube interference. Only needed about 1/2"-3/4" IIRC. Then I used Hysol to stick small plywood gusset reinforcements made from my leftover floorboards to the drag tube and rib web. I also glued ply gussets between the spar and drag tubes for extra strength.

If you saw some of my early photos showing the mixer in my Avid+, you are correct about them showing the cables crossing. Randy was the first one to the final rigging steps and figured that didn't work out too good pretty quickly, lol. I think it is funny how may times I looked at that new mixer setup, even mocked it up, but never noticed because I didn't connect the flaperons.

Good eye, my apologies if I have caused the confusion! hammerhead.gif

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Posted (edited)

Hi Dale-

I just used a sanding drum on a dremel to notch the rib web to allow for the drag tube interference. Only needed about 1/2"-3/4" IIRC. Then I used Hysol to stick small plywood gusset reinforcements made from my leftover floorboards to the drag tube and rib web. I also glued ply gussets between the spar and drag tubes for extra strength.

If you saw some of my early photos showing the mixer in my Avid+, you are correct about them showing the cables crossing. Randy was the first one to the final rigging steps and figured that didn't work out too good pretty quickly, lol. I think it is funny how may times I looked at that new mixer setup, even mocked it up, but never noticed because I didn't connect the flaperons.
Good eye, my apologies if I have caused the confusion! :hammerhead:




Thanks Doug What you describe sounds about right on the rib interference and we were thinking on doing as you mention. Little extra reinforcement/gusseting, etc.

That may well have been your pictures with the crossed cables. I thought I saw it a couple places but time does things with ones memory. So now your cables do not cross?

Thanks again. Edited by C150L

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Posted

I think I saw in another post that Randys cable cross TWICE to the get the left back to the left and the right back to the right.

:BC:

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