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Tundra tires

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Posted

I am getting to the point that I need a new set of tires, and would like to replace with the biggest I can get. What I have are 22x9x8 atv tires with the nubs ground off. I've seen the $100 21x12x8 pair on ebay but would like to get closer to 30" if I could. Does anybody have any experience with tires of such size on a KF? I don't have time to do a big mod job, so would like to stick with the 8" rims. Any pointers?

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Posted

I am getting to the point that I need a new set of tires, and would like to replace with the biggest I can get. What I have are 22x9x8 atv tires with the nubs ground off. I've seen the $100 21x12x8 pair on ebay but would like to get closer to 30" if I could. Does anybody have any experience with tires of such size on a KF? I don't have time to do a big mod job, so would like to stick with the 8" rims. Any pointers?

Hey Dave,

Is that John Stoner's old KF?

For the 8" wheels, the Nanco tires are about the biggest you are going to get. SuberAvid had a set of 10" wheels made so he could run 25" ATV tires. Your best bet, if you are looking for tires that big is to bite the bullet and get a set of 6" Matco Wheels and mount up a set of 26" bushwheels. Randy has them on his fat avid and loves them! I got tire envy cause they are 1000% better than my 24" goodyears.

With the Matco wheels it is not a big mod job cause they come with the 3/4" bearings too so it is just an issue to cut a spacer or slide your axle in and re-drill it.

I cant remember if John had ski's for that bird or not?? If so, we do quite a bit of playing in the winter around the valley and up the river..

:BC:

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Posted

Hi Dave,

Everything Leni said is correct and I spent way too much money converting my Avid to KF hubs and building 8" rims for the 21" tires and then 9" rims for the 25" ATV tires and finally buying a new set of 6" Matco rims with spacers to widen them for the 26" bushwheels and that is what I should have done from the start. I ran the 26" bushwheels on my Avid MK IV and now on my Avid+ and had no issues with flying or quirky stalls, etc. I have wondered if it would have any issues with 29, 30 or 31's. I doubt that it would on my Avid+ but it might be more of an issue on a shorter plane like the MK IV. The bigger deal is that they get heavier fast as you go bigger and I think other than the 31's would look really cool, the 26's are a much better match for our planes and a lot lighter. Plus, they roll over about anything I think I should be landing on without a problem. I think I would have to get a lot better about controlling my TW (keeping it up all the time) for bigger mains to do me any better. That said, the Just Highlander guys are running 31's on their demo plane and some of the others. My 26's are "experimental" in that they were built with minimal rubber so they are very light as far as bushwheels go. If you buy a new set, I would recommend the Airstreak series from AK Bushwheels since they are build lighter than the regular bushwheels.

Are you based in Anchorage? If so, come out and visit! My plane is at Wolf Lake in the Valley and like Leni said, get those skis on so we can do some group flying adventures this winter.

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Posted

Thanks for the good info. Unfortunately, John sold the skis to one of you guys and I haven't gotten any since. 166N has been my learning Airplane, so as you can see, it has new landing gear and a some abrasions on the wing tips. A couple props later, my nerves of steel instructor and I got it figured out and have been doing ok. So yes, its about time to graduate to skis, but am a bit short on time to build a set. with 6" matco wheels, how do you mount the brake rotor? I'm a little shy of the 2K price tag for bush wheels though so are there any cheap alternatives for the 6" wheels letting me graduate up a little later? I think I'd rather put 2k into an IFA prop. Would love to join you all at a flyin if time and opportunity arises.

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Posted

Thanks for the good info. Unfortunately, John sold the skis to one of you guys and I haven't gotten any since. 166N has been my learning Airplane, so as you can see, it has new landing gear and a some abrasions on the wing tips. A couple props later, my nerves of steel instructor and I got it figured out and have been doing ok. So yes, its about time to graduate to skis, but am a bit short on time to build a set. with 6" matco wheels, how do you mount the brake rotor? I'm a little shy of the 2K price tag for bush wheels though so are there any cheap alternatives for the 6" wheels letting me graduate up a little later? I think I'd rather put 2k into an IFA prop. Would love to join you all at a flyin if time and opportunity arises.

There really are no good alternatives. If you can find a set of 8.50 4 ply tires they will work with the 6" wheels. Most of the other tundra type tires are too thick and too heavy for our birds. I run 2 psi in the old heavy 24" I have and they dont do much for absorbtion as the side walls are just too heavy for our light weight planes.

On the Matco wheels, the rotor bolts to the wheel just like you have them now. I am running the same calipers on the Matco wheels as I do with the kitfox set up, just different length spacers on the bearings.

Now that you say that, I think akflyerbob ended up with the ski's that were on that plane before.

:BC:

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Posted

I have a set of the Avid wheel skis I would sell.

They have cables and bungies

Yes, I did buy other skis from John.

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Posted

Hi!

I found a set of very lightly used McCreary 850-6 4 plys for cheap and mounted them on my Avid. The looked great, but I did not like them. Too much unsprung weight. Seemed like they wanted to twist the plane when touching down on one tire first. Taxiing on rough ground was like a bronco. Don't know why, but it was rougher with the big tires that the 600's I was running. They just felt too heavy so I took them off and went to 800X6 4 ply McCreary's. The worked great. A bit larger, but not near the weight and handling issues of the 850's. The best compromise for an all 'round tire for me.

Still wanting bush size tires, I asked around and the folks I know that ran the AK wheels just loved them. I said what about all the weight? and told them about my experience with 850's. The all claimed the AK tires were the bomb and they didn't notice the stuff I did with the 850's. I finally gave into my desire and bought Airstreaks. Turns out they are the same weight as the 850's with tubes, but much larger and softer. I was skeptical and was afraid I was spending WAY too much money for a tire that was still going to give me problems.

Well, all I can say is they must make those thigs out of magic rubber or something. My first landing felt like one of the best I have ever done, and I just kept on having great landings. No bouncy unsprung weight problems, no twisting the airplane if one tire touches first. I have no idea why they work, but they do.

Problem now is I am afraid they won't last and I will wear them out quickly. I fly out of a grass strip, but still land a fair amount on pavement. While I love the tires, I have taken them off for the winter to help preserve them. They are about the coolest thing you can add to a plane, but they come (at least for me) with their own worries, not about landing but about huge cost and possibility they won't last long.

It's all tradeoffs I guess. All I can say is that from a performance perspective you cant go wrong with the bushwheels. Cost is another issue and I won't know till mine wear out if I got my money's worth.

Good luck what ever you end up doing!

Chris Bolkan

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Posted

Problem now is I am afraid they won't last and I will wear them out quickly. I fly out of a grass strip, but still land a fair amount on pavement. While I love the tires, I have taken them off for the winter to help preserve them. They are about the coolest thing you can add to a plane, but they come (at least for me) with their own worries, not about landing but about huge cost and possibility they won't last long.

It's all tradeoffs I guess. All I can say is that from a performance perspective you cant go wrong with the bushwheels. Cost is another issue and I won't know till mine wear out if I got my money's worth.

Good luck what ever you end up doing!

Chris Bolkan

I would not worry too much about wearing them out to quick. We have guys here with years on them on the cubs. Just try to limit the pavement landings cause they can make the ride intersting... but I think you may have found that out already! My first lesson in a TD was in a PA 12 with 31" on it.. holy shit did that get exciting! That was the last take off or landing I did with those tires on pavement for years! Even now, a couple thousand hours and a few thousand landings, I still stay off the pavement with big tires. Not because I am worried about wearing them out, but because with 2-3 PSI in them, it gets real dicey if you have any kind of cross wind or are not prefectly straight when you touch down. Them sumbitches will grab and then your just along for the ride!

:BC:

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Posted

Here's a (bad) shot of my plane with my new "poorman's bush tires" on it. They are AeroClassic 21 x 8.00 x 6. They are 4-ply so they are light (11#) with tube. I don't hav a lot of time on them, yet, but, so far I love them.

Airdale is a distributor for these and they can be had for a little more than $100 each.

post-36-13233952417216_thumb.jpg

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Posted

Here's a (bad) shot of my plane with my new "poorman's bush tires" on it. They are AeroClassic 21 x 8.00 x 6. They are 4-ply so they are light (11#) with tube. I don't hav a lot of time on them, yet, but, so far I love them.

Airdale is a distributor for these and they can be had for a little more than $100 each.

Those look sweet. What make/model/size are they?

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Posted

I would not worry too much about wearing them out to quick. We have guys here with years on them on the cubs. Just try to limit the pavement landings cause they can make the ride intersting... but I think you may have found that out already! My first lesson in a TD was in a PA 12 with 31" on it.. holy shit did that get exciting! That was the last take off or landing I did with those tires on pavement for years! Even now, a couple thousand hours and a few thousand landings, I still stay off the pavement with big tires. Not because I am worried about wearing them out, but because with 2-3 PSI in them, it gets real dicey if you have any kind of cross wind or are not prefectly straight when you touch down. Them sumbitches will grab and then your just along for the ride!

:BC:

Actually I haven't found the airstreaks difficult at all to land on pavement. They seem to work just fine, and certainly no worse than the 850's I was referring to. However, the airstreaks are not near as big and heavy as the 31's you are talking about.

My not so good landing experience you are referring to was on the 800-6's after I had removed the Airstreaks. I let myself get sucked into a traffic pattern full of nose draggers all landing with a tailwind. Rather than do what it took to land the direction I should have, I went ahead and joined the crowd. I thought I would be fine. Unfortunately things didn't go as I anticipated. I ended up in an unexpected and very abrupt groundloop.

Live and learn. I've told my friends I won't make that series of mistakes again. I'll make plenty of others, but not those. I'm almost done fixing the plane and fortunately all damage was cosmetic except the landing gear spring and it is even now repaired to new spec and back in my hands ready to install.

Chris

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Posted

Great discussion; I'll add my 2cent.gif . It sounds like the Aero classics that Airdale is offering are probably a good way to go if you don't really need to roll over nasty stuff and budget is critical. I also have to say that the 25x12x9 2 ply ATV tires that I cut and ground all of the tread off of and made up a set of 9" Douglas rims for (had brake tabs welded in and machined) actually worked very well. I didn't fly them too long but they were very absorbing of bumps and handled fine. The cost was in getting the hubs and wheels but once done the cost of replacement tires is relatively cheap.

I avoid pavement like the plague with my Bushwheels. I have found that when I have to land them on pavement I need to really pay attention; and I can just feel the money getting worn off when they chirp. I will land on the grass or gravel alongside the runway if I can't find a gravel strip but there is risk in that if you have not been able to check it out for ruts and obstructions first.

Those nose draggers...Sheesh, what can I say nutkick.gif

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Posted

Actually I haven't found the airstreaks difficult at all to land on pavement. They seem to work just fine, and certainly no worse than the 850's I was referring to. However, the airstreaks are not near as big and heavy as the 31's you are talking about.

My not so good landing experience you are referring to was on the 800-6's after I had removed the Airstreaks. I let myself get sucked into a traffic pattern full of nose draggers all landing with a tailwind. Rather than do what it took to land the direction I should have, I went ahead and joined the crowd. I thought I would be fine. Unfortunately things didn't go as I anticipated. I ended up in an unexpected and very abrupt groundloop.

Live and learn. I've told my friends I won't make that series of mistakes again. I'll make plenty of others, but not those. I'm almost done fixing the plane and fortunately all damage was cosmetic except the landing gear spring and it is even now repaired to new spec and back in my hands ready to install.

Chris

How many PSI are you running in the airstreaks?

Ahhhh.. I now remember reading about the events that led up to your lil pirroette on one of the other sites. To be honest, I too have made a few down wind landings just to go with the flow. I think I will use your incident as a great reminder that we are not forced to follow idiots in the pattern if they are doing something that is unsafe, or just not quite right. Our #1 duty is to complete the flight SAFELY as seen in our eyes at the time.

:BC:

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Posted

How many PSI are you running in the airstreaks?

Ahhhh.. I now remember reading about the events that led up to your lil pirroette on one of the other sites. To be honest, I too have made a few down wind landings just to go with the flow. I think I will use your incident as a great reminder that we are not forced to follow idiots in the pattern if they are doing something that is unsafe, or just not quite right. Our #1 duty is to complete the flight SAFELY as seen in our eyes at the time.

:BC:

I ran everything from 3-4 PSI up to 10-12. 4 PSI is awesome for landing as soft as you can over rough terrain like on the banks of the Columbia River near my home. 10-12 PSI is what the manufacturer says to run if you are doing a lot of pavement landings. I found that running 10-12 along with my relatively low tailwheel time (400 hours of my total 1600) caused me to bounce if I failed to completely arrest my decent at touchdown.

I think that 12 PSI is recommended for pavement because it does not scrub the rubber off as fast when taxiing and turning. For day to day flying I ran about 8 PSI which gave me a round enough tire to land on pavement, but also absorbed rather than bounced.

Chris

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Posted

Here's a (bad) shot of my plane with my new "poorman's bush tires" on it. They are AeroClassic 21 x 8.00 x 6. They are 4-ply so they are light (11#) with tube. I don't hav a lot of time on them, yet, but, so far I love them.

Airdale is a distributor for these and they can be had for a little more than $100 each.

These tires would fit on the Matco 6" wheels right? If so tell Brett I would be interested. If we could make a deal I could use them this week.

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Posted

He's got the same ones on his plane now. I think he has the 6" Matco wheels (OEM Avid).

Mark, I don't think he stocks these, but if you let him know you want a set and he will surely get them on the way ASAP...

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Posted (edited)

Let's bring this old thread to life with a tale of 2 like tires with very different price points.

I've been giving the Aero Classics some thought to create some prop/ground clearance and for some added cushin'in off field and those not so smooth landings.  I'm retaining my stock Mod C gear and the 6" split wheels (Matco?) and Matco brakes.

So what the best value?

2nd item?

http://www.aeroinstock.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/goodyeartires.pdf
 

http://www.desser.com/Aircraft-Tires-and-Tubes/21800-6-4-PLYB.asp

This looks like the same tire Aeroinstock offer but for $100 more!   What gives?

So it looks like Aero is offering the buffed tire for what Desser is charging for the ribbed.  And the Aero offering is a 22". 

Too many variables here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by allonsye

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Posted

Those are two different tires.

The first ones are the 22/850-6.  Link

The second are 21/800-6 Buffs.  Link

 

If the price ($107) is accurate on your first link that is absolutely a steal for those tires.  Desser wants $225 for the same, direct.

I have the non-buffed 21/800-6 (Link) tires on both of my planes and love them.  I went with the treaded tires because I do operate off a paved airport most of the time and, IMO, the "buffed" tires are the same only with most of the life ground off them.

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Posted (edited)

......and the price is wrong.  Appears a misprint otherwise it is a STEAL! which was what got my attention.  I'm leaning toward the non-buffed 21/800-6 from Desser.

 

Av8 did you notice a decrease in braking power with the switch?   Which tubes did you go with?  Getting that stem in the right place looks a challenge.

Edited by allonsye

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Posted

Going to these tires was part of a Grove conversion process which included double puck calipers.  The brakes are strong enough to flip the plane up on her nose.  I have tubeless wheels on the Mangy and the tubes on the Yellow are just cheapies (700/800-6).  Nothing special needed.

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Posted

Check your wheel width. You may need the spacer if you have the regular Matco wheels that were stock on Avids. I needed the 1 inch spacer. 21-8.00-6 Desser is a decent tire. Much better than the golf cart tires but not anywhere close to a "bush wheel". Good value for the money though.

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Posted

I may have to take a good look at these again.  I may just have enough room in the Amphib to stuff those aero classics in the wells.  That would make it really nice for beaching and getting a bit more clearance on gravel strips.

:BC:

 

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